"No thanks, I've got a boyfriend"... part deux

While I'm thinking about the subject, none of my female friends sleep elsewhere when they come to stay. We both sleep in one bed, normally roaring with laughter and chattering away until sleep overtakes us. There is one friend who doesn't, but she's really funny about sharing her sleeping space with anyone. It's no different with male friends.

When I used to share a house it wasn't at all remarkable for us to clamber into one another's beds, even if a boyfriend was there as well. Normally that would be on a weekend morning, to trade war stories. Quite often we'd all fall asleep again. It's not that I had a particularly unusual set of housemates, either; I've just flicked through my FB list of friends and there's plenty of others I can point to who did the same in their houses.

Eh? From recent posts, how on earth have you got to 'men are now wrong for making a pass at women who invite them into their bed'?

For the record, the last time I shared a bed it was with three of my good male friends. Because we wanted to talk.

Sorry, but if a man (or woman)- and I am talking about adults here not teenagers having fun sleepovers in gangs- invite each other into the other one's bed (unless there really is nowhere else to sleep, of course) then they are sending the other one a very clear signal that they want to get intimate.

Any person would then be acting reasonably if they made an attempt of kissing that other person who invited them into their bed. Now this is NOT to say that if the 'inviter' says 'Look, I don't want sex, just a cuddle' that the other person carries on, no, not at all, to carry on when that person has said no to sex is clearly rape. To carry on having sex with somebody when they have said no to it is rape wherever that place might be.

But are we now supposed to believe that a man is in the wrong for making a pass at a woman who has invited her to her bed? Jeez, if so, then we really have entered cloud cuckoo land...

I don't know colditz, I tried the 'innocent bed sharing' thing when I was very young but it never ended up innocent - especially where alcohol was involved. Mainly because my male friends are quite attractive.

Colditz, it genuinely warms the cockles of my cynical miserable heart to hear about your sister. It's what it's all about, isn't it? Wonderful, equal, respectful and rewarding relationships of all kinds between men and women.

My sister is 21 and from the age of 16 has regularly has a bed full of men.

She's not a virgin, but she is very close toone - she doesn't shag these men and they don't attempt to shag her, no matter how drunk she and they are.

Me too SaF

I know there's incriminating pictures somewhere of us all in the park in each other's clothes. It was me and probably six young men, all drinking cider and messing about. There was quite the fight as each guy in turn posed in my bra!

It makes me really sad to think that there are plenty of people out there who would see that behaviour as dangerous, or that I was somehow asking for trouble.

I still share beds with male friends; if it's that or the floor, no question! It helps that we've known each other for years but it shouldn't be any different if it was a work colleague or someone I've just met. Ridiculous that someone should take the floor when there's a perfectly comfortable bed.

And yes, there was plenty of bed-swapping with intent going on when we were younger. I can't remember anyone getting possessive or funny about it.

Works both ways, of course; I think about my male friends and they wouldn't dream of hitting on women in the ways we've been discussing. They wouldn't dream of viewing a woman as their property. I wonder how much of that was down to our experiences as teenagers...

Swallowed - yes, I grew up with a friendship culture wherein the worst that would happen to you if you passed out was an eyeliner moustache (if female) or a shaved eyebrow (if male)

Notone of my female friends has ever been mithered by any of my male friends, and it wasn't uncommon for us all to sleep on the floor of the same room.

That's not to say nothing ever happened - but when it did, it was consensual.

And these were 17 and 18 year old boys! Not the group most known for their delicacy or low sex drives! If they can control themselves, then grown men certainly can. "I don't want to" was a good enough reason for them, why is it not a good enough reason for other men?

That's what I thought when I saw a post accusing me of being a women-hating bloke called Dan....

Hello SQ. Yes, indeed, some people have - and they are most definitely to be commended for their patience (I am on record as disagreeing with Warmster on the point btw). My comment is, therefore, directed at those who take the 'don't feed the trolls' approach.

I obviously mean their criteria for 'troll'...

Anyway, sorry, off topic - but I'm just reading the 'controversial' end of the last thread...

We have been engaging with wamster for over 1000 posts, jenny!

Sorry, can't help but laugh. Changing ideas is pretty hard to do if you decide not to engage with those who you disagree with. You talk about embracing diversity, but are repelled by anyone who doesn't hold your view.

Oh the irony!

How strange I was also an "alternative" person - first indie/metal/goth and later dance clubs at the druggier end of the scale (rather than the posing end). Interestingly there was a big crossover in the people who went to certain dance clubs and certain indie/metal/goth clubs. Same sort of people. Thinking about it, maybe more interested in the music than anything else - going to a club primarily because they are part of the "scene" rather than to pull (although obv there was a vast amount of pulling ).

I got hassle when I went to pubs which were not alternative ie when I went to normal pubs, it was always the "lads" as someone says in "shirt n shoes" uniform type look who were unable to respect boundaries or take no for an answer. I found it shocking, it was not what I had come to expect from males IYSWIM.