Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Unflip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Unflip

1 2 3

Original poster

Why is it so hard to call my daughter's soft toy monkey 'she'?

57 replies

wem · 04/08/2011 16:57

I've become aware of the general tendency to call all non-gendered toys 'he' (i.e. anything other than dolls or babies dressed in pink), so when dd1 decided her monkey was a girl I've been trying my hardest to call it she, but 'he' slips out quite often. And I've really noticed that every single person who interacts with dd1 about her monkey (she takes it everywhere) says he. So it's fighting a losing battle as dd1 will then call it he anyway, even though she says it's a girl. Very confusing for her I would have thought.

It's a perfect example of the default being male, and female being 'other'. When I corrected one of my friends (only because dd1 was there) and said, 'it's a she', she said 'why?', as if there has to be a reason for the monkey to be female.

It's mostly pissing me of that even I can't stick to it. This stuff is really ingrained.

OP posts:

aliceliddell · 05/08/2011 19:26

YY this is particularly annoying for things which are self-evidently female as in several adverts on tv recently- bees, ants, tortoiseshell cats. Same goes for eggs, clitorises (clitori? clitorae?) Any pink toy should be referred to as 'he' on principal.

sakura · 05/08/2011 13:03

this is an interesting thread. I used to have trouble in the beginning, but then I started defaulting EVERYTHING to "she" .Now it comes naturally.

I remember my gran using male pronouns for literally everything. Even eggs "Are you going to have him now or later?"

BunnyWunny · 05/08/2011 10:40

We have the same problem- even my dds pink rabbit is a he- not that being pink should automatically make it a girl- but you know what I mean...

emmanumber3 · 05/08/2011 10:40

I'm glad someone else has thought of this . We seem to have a house full of teddies, most of which are "he" unless they are blatantly wearing a dress, pink etc. However, I did once ask DS2 "where are all the lady teddy bears?" and he replied "at work". Maybe our teddies are just all SAHPs .

LaCerbiatta · 05/08/2011 10:38

NOT necessarily a feminist issue!

LaCerbiatta · 05/08/2011 10:37

Interesting. In portuguese all animals or objects are pre-defined as male or female but I don't know the origins of it. So it's almost obvious to me that a snake is female and a crocodile is male for example....
I imagine it's what you grow up being used to. Once I had a discussion with an italian guy to whom it was evident that flowers and trees were male whereas to me there's no question that they're female!

So to answer the op, it is difficult to fight against what is ingrained but necessarily a feminist issue - just a habit!

fluffyanimal · 05/08/2011 10:32

We have a lot of duplicate toys in our house, that differ only by size, e.g. a big Roary Racing Car and a little one. For DS1, the big one was Daddy Roary and the little one was baby Roary (male). For DS2, now playing with the same toys, the big one is Mummy Roary and the little one is baby. What is that supposed to tell me?

For some reason I always have a mental block over Postman Pat's cat Jess being male, I always refer to it as 'she'.

Original poster

wem · 05/08/2011 10:22

I don't know alexpolismum, that's kind of my point, it automatically comes out 'he'. I suppose I'd find it strange using it with something dd1 has invested so much personality and care in.

OP posts:

alexpolismum · 05/08/2011 09:28

Why don't you call non-obviously-gendered toys 'it'??

I call my children's elephants/ monkeys/ giraffes/ whatever 'it' until the children have decided for themselves what they are. Funnily enough, 3-year-old dd has a teddy called Parker who is a 'she'. I always used to refer to it as 'it', so that's definitely come from her!

DontCallMePeanut · 04/08/2011 23:56

DS loves Pirate Gran and the sequel

I'm also rather chuffed with him... Hiis favourite character from Toy Story is Jessie, to the point that he won't watch the first film anymore (unless I promise he can watch the second after) and defended his Jessie the other day, when a little girl asked why he had a Jessie doll if he's a boy... His answer? "She's the best"...

I'm not sure if it's being ina very matriachal family which has done it (Mum's always been head honcho and that seems to have rubbed off) but everyone is typically "her" or "she" with him. Same with animals. And to everyone's amusement, both DB and DBil get called AuntieDB and AuntieDBil.

GrimmaTheNome · 04/08/2011 23:09

I find people are more likely to refer to a cat of unknown gender as 'she' ... maybe labouring under the delusion they're sweet fwuffy darlings not bird-murdering, turd-depositing thugs

SardineQueen · 04/08/2011 22:45

My just 2yo DD likes this maisy one

SardineQueen · 04/08/2011 22:35

one about the dragon for 3+ I reckon.

The other nice thing about Gruffalo's child is it's her and her dad, and at the end they curl up to sleep together. The DDs are very close to their dad and it was nice to find a book reflecting that, rather than it all being about (default) boys and mums.

SardineQueen · 04/08/2011 22:32

scallops yes gruffalo's child is a girl. And it's not til the end you find out, which is nice, as it's not a female character in a self-conscious way, it's just how it is IYSWIM.

Julia Donaldson is good actually - there is a book of hers called "rosie's hat" which my DD has loved from 3, and the one about the dragon...

Maisy books are good for a 2yo

LRDTheFeministDragon · 04/08/2011 22:11

Yes, I've noticed myself (and kicked myself) doing this.

I used to babysit children in the village where I grew up - farming country, they got taken to see baby calves by school in year 1, etc - and noticed that most children and a lot of mums would still refer to dairy cattle as 'he'!

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 04/08/2011 22:00

Oh that's good to know chugsy.

silverfrog · 04/08/2011 22:00

yes re: babies/children are female. never (sweeping genralisation!) the grown ups - they are male, but the lowly ones, the sweet little powerless ones? yep they're female...

chugsy · 04/08/2011 21:56

Gruffalo's child is a she though handdived, and come to think of it I 'noticed' it because it was not the norm.

chugsy · 04/08/2011 21:56

Non doggy people often refer to all dogs as 'he' as well, I've noticed.

But, conversely, I've noticed baby mags/baby advice leaflets often refer to babies as she - "when bathing your baby make sure that the water isn't too hot for her" etc

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 04/08/2011 21:52

It's the same in books too. The animals are generally male. "dear Zoo" or the "Gruffalo" as examples. I try and change the sex every so often but it does feel strange for some reason.

I think I might change the sex of DS's soft toys though who are currently, teddy, teddy and originally enough teddy (he's not 2 yet I hasten to add)!

GrimmaTheNome · 04/08/2011 21:33

Wem, I debated that with the teacher too!

I remember when DD was small, one of my NCT friends singing 'Miss Polly had a dolly '.... 'the doctor came with her bag and her hat' - and thinking, by gum, she's right - huge numbers of doctors, especially ones children are most likely to see, are women now! My DD had never seen a male doc at that point.

Thistledew · 04/08/2011 21:30

I must ask my mother how she raised me; when I was about 3 yes old I had a couple of dollies who were named 'Mrs Owl' and 'James', and despite what would appear obvious, they were both girls. When I was a little older I had three CareBears, an adult and a baby of the same colour and an adult of a different colour. The adults were both female and lived together to raise the baby, who was a boy.

Having said that, I agree that the default is to call an inanimate stuffed toy 'he'.

ThePosieParker · 04/08/2011 21:21

My children think this is my house though....and Nanna's house and Aunty Sister's house.

Original poster

wem · 04/08/2011 21:02

I was trying to remember which language it was that did that. I remember being outraged by it in French lessons

OP posts:

WoTmania · 04/08/2011 19:46

Oh, I lived in France as a child and even then I felt it massively unjust that a large group of people if containing a man was automatically referred to as 'ils' (i.e the mascullin version of 'they')rather than 'elles'. Even if there were 100 women and 1 solitary man technically they were 'ils'.

Unflip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread