Man said disposable nappies should be banned

What about women without partners though?

The right thing, god alone knows what ther gut is supposed to mean.

I'm having DC2 in October and until, at least, bf is established we are going back to full time disposables. Why? Because as wonderful as DH is and as much housework and general stuff he will do when I am busy on the sofa feeding with the newborn. He won't wash nappies. He'll change them, flush the poo down the loo, wipe bottoms, Hoover, clean the kitchen, cook dinner, take the bins out etc, but he won't do nappies.

And in that senario, neither will I, it is the least pleasant of all the household chores, and I do it because I feel it is ther gut thing to do (and cheaper) but I will not make myself a martyr to the cause.

I agree it's a feminist issue. But one for individuals to fight out with their partners more than anything which can be achieved with a policy change? I lost that one!
SaF, The working mother you describe would certainly find it harder than the majority of people, but don't think she is a typical working mum. She would certainly save money by bf, though - that is a feminist issue too, isn't it?

I accept what you are saying MBJ, I just feel that ignorance and/or laziness have a much bigger part to play here than poverty or too-busy working mums. I know middle class women having babies now who get a year's maternity leave then use a childminder. They are using disposables. Even one who is quite green in many ways did not use the cloth nappies I GAVE her, because she 'just never got round to it' - she did not even try them once, so it is more a perception than a fact that they are more hassle.

I was mostly SAH with DD, but her childminder from 18 months used my cloth nappies and helped to potty train her. I worked PT from 8 months with DS. Other than the day he spent at nursery, I still used cloth. Even on camping holidays and at 3 festivals, where there was a nappy laundry service!
There is nothing special about me, I was just motivated to find my way round any problems in order to use cloth, and I saved hundreds of pounds in doing so.

Where I used to live there was a fantastic service that would wash reusables for you. I used liners, put them down the loo, then put the soiled nappy in a nappy bin and then to a dustbin outside. Every Friday an electric van came along, took the soiled nappies and gave me fresh clean ones. So absolutely no more effort than disposables, yet even greener than washing your own as they are washed centrally leading to economies of scale. And I could be quietly environmentally smug without any effort on my part . The cost worked out the same as buying disposables. Sadly the service closed as not enough people were using it which I found really sad - if the majority used companies like this it would IMO be win win for all. Better for environment, easy for parents and benefiting small local companies in place of the disposable conglomerates.

Just to butt in, LieIns.

In the 70s the social demographic was rather different too, with the overwhelming majority of mother's staying home and doing all the housework. Now, still have a situation where housework and (particularly baby poop etc) still falls mainly on the woman's shoulders whether or not she WOH. (There are of course exceptions but these are not the norm)

Let's also not forget that cloth is more hassle not a lot, certainly not more than will put me off using them (but I'm a SAHM) and that is a HUGE consideration when already strapped for time.

This is a feminist issue (as well as environmental and cost) and pricing reusable nappies out of the reach of the majority of households will have a much larger impact on women lower-incomes.

www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=334

shows that in 2009/10 roughly the bottom 40% of households earn £20,000 or less before adjusting for tax credits and benefits which reduces the percentage of households on less than £20,000 to 20%.

I am doing the opposite of missing out economics, I am saying that this is not an issue which can be taken in isolation and I have given examples of other measures I would like to be brought in alongside it. I am suggesting that there should be schemes organised to get people to change, and that these need to be funded from somewhere, so a green tax is one idea.

lots of people scavenge around gathering their pennies to buy that next pack of nappies Yes they do, so let's do something about that, shall we, and stop lining the pockets of the unethical multinationals?

I do take your point about lower-income people having a lower carbon footprint than wealthier ones. Also that the measure of poverty is unsatisfactory and inaccurate. But citing OAPs in a debate about disposable nappies is not really relevant is it?

SaF I agree with what you are saying about 'green taxes' not being targetted and managed in the correct way - I am in favour of having a 'closed loop' where taxes taken at one end go to solve a problem at the other end. Landfill tax is supposed to fund green initiatives which for example can help people on lower incomes insulate their homes etc. Road charging revenue should be going into public transport.

nappies that can be bought for a fiver a week are a damn site cheaper for these people than putting on the washing machine and the heating to dry them.

Yes there are problems for the poorest, but they are being fleeced by big business (£5 a week, really? I would have thought more, especially in the early days), and the government/local government could do a lot more to help. I think that there should be changes made to the card key utilities costs, help with the cost of the initial purchase, loan of nappies or laundry services, more creative thinking, to solve these underlying problems.

The fact remains that MOST of the population are not on/below the poverty line, and they are still choosing disposables and keeping children in them for 3 years plus in many cases. Who is benefitting from that, really?

And, being a left of centre green, I do not equate this type of thing with pricing up the railways, quite the opposite! Let's tax road use more and subsidise public transport! Then all these people who drive their 4 x 4s to Waitrose to buy more nappies might go by bike sometimes, like I do.

Tilly I am of course talking about UK tax/incentive reforms. I only vote in this country and don't think I have that much influence even here!
What do the 'natives' do in your sub-tropical climate, just out of interest?

swallowedafly until the 70s rich and poor all used the same system and washing machines were not in most homes. So dispos are a modern luxury product, not a 'basic'. It is not a rich and poor issue at all and most of the people I know would just not consider using cloth because they perceive it as a hassle, nothing to do with economics. Just like most people I know tumble dry washing even on sunny days because it saves a few minutes, even though it costs more.

Using cloth saves money and a nappy laundry service need not be very expensive to run - there are cost savings to a local authority in reducing waste to ladnill/incineration. There are schemes and grants to fund this type of thing under green initiatives. It is big business which benefits from the majority using disposables, keeping children in them for as many years as possible, and our children and their children who will suffer from the pollution and waste disposal problems it causes.