Man said disposable nappies should be banned

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, that doesn't necessarily make it a valid one.

Since it's obvious that experienced nappy-changers don't agree on this topic, I don't see how an inexperienced person ought to be told not to comment. Whatever that person said, s/he would be agreeing with one of the experienced opinions, so what's the value of experience?

[Philosophy mode off.]

And once again, there seems to be an attempt to blame manufacturers and not consumers. More environmentally friendly nappies would cost more--given a choice, would people pay the extra? Should they be forced to? I suppose I'm saying that it's consumers as well as producers who should be held accountable.

So where's the line in the sand RealMBJ? I just don't agree that we can automatically dismiss people from debates on the basis of their experiences - or lack thereof. To look at it the other way, Wellington (I think) once commented that the most experienced campaigner under his command was a donkey - he wouldn't go to it for advice, however.

Corporations have to put profit first as that's their obligation to shareholders. I agree, therefore, that the onus for improvement lies with environmental regulation.

No, if you spent three years doing a thesis on the subject of parents opinions of course you would be entitled to an opinion based on research. some bloke who's changed a handful of nappies or someone with good social support who cannot empathise does not.

Of course there is; no, you can't fully understand the impact, but you can empathise and you are most definitely entitled to hold an opinion. If I spent three years doing a thesis on the subject and interviewed hundreds of parents, would you still say there was no value in what I had to say on the subject? However, I don't think the environmental case against disposables is clear-cut and, by and large, I think people should do what is most practical and let science find the way forward. In my experience very few people are prepared to invest much time or money on long term environmental solutions unless forced to do so. In this case making disposables illegal would clearly be idiocy. Black market nappies - can you imagine?

blackcurrants I have a friend in NYC with pretty much the same story as yours. Planned to cloth diaper, bought the bambinex, couldn't manage with the lugging. You're not her are you?!

Actually, she had 10 flights and a lift but tbh, I would feel exactly the same unspder the circumstances

jenny in these situations there is no such thing as outsiders objectivity as you cannot understand the impact until you live it yourself. I agree with Deb that all child rearing duties/choices are feminist issues as overwhelmingly (note not always) it is women who have to deal with it.

I feel much the same about bf. I am an ardent advocate for breastfeeding. I work hard (voluntarily) to provide support for local mums who want to breastfeed to succeed and to help them make it as easy and enjoyable as it should be. However, I am the first to recognise that without the right support bf is can be very difficult and had I been in pain and been undemined by HCPs (as I see frequently) I would have ff.

Hmm.. what wins; environmental issues or women's liberation (as achieved through disposable nappies)? Nice to see lots of comments automatically claiming that men (all 3bn of them) never change nappies so they aren't permitted to have opinons on the subject... Quite apart from the issue of generalisations and reinforcing stereotypes (isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?), in respect of those people without a direct involvement, objectivity is surely a valid aspect of any debate? Otherwise, unless we have direct and current involvement in education, health care, defence, social security etc, we shouldn't be voting. I thought there were fights for the right to do that?

an observation from the sidelines:
I planned to use cloth and didn't (much) because I had to lug my laundry up and down three flights of stairs to the machines in the basement. And then go down to change them over to the dryer or bring them up to airdry in my tiny flat. The nappies themselves (Bambinex teddies) are brilliant - fleece dries very quickly, doesn't smell, slim and fit under cheapo babygros, I can chuck them into a 40 degree wash with the rest of ds's clothes- but the lugging was one thing too much for us to do, what with us both working long hours and the general new baby exhaustion.

We've just moved house to a place that has a washer and drier in the flat, and a porchy/veranday place where I've got a big clothes horse for drying. We're using the cloth again, though not overnight. It's just got easier to use them, just that tiny amount easier to put the nappies in a lidded bucket and then the washing machine than wrap a disposable and take it downstairs and outside to the bin. And that was how much easier it needed to get.

DS will go to nursery full time in Sept, and they won't do cloth there (usa, they don't have to) so we'll be back in the Luvs I should think. (we get them at Costco). I wish we could afford the highly biodegradable ones but we can't. For us, it's either the cheaper disposables or cloth - a financial issue more than an environmental one.

And our decision to use cloth, while I was pregnant, was predicated on DH changing every single nappy while he was in the house. That was the breastfeeding deal- input = Mum, output = Dad. And he's honoured that! But then, nappies bloody well are a feminist issue. It's shitty work and (in general) women do most of it. That makes it a feminist issue for me.

You could say all areas of raising a child is a feminist issue. From getting pregnant to seeing them off to start their own lives it is usually the women who does the majority.
So what is the answer. There isn't one, people will do what they want, within reason, based on their and their families experiences.
I choose to bf as I know it is best for baby. I don't see it as hard work or an injustice that I have had to give up alcohol. i certainly don't expect dp to give it up.
I use reusables as I like them and I do feel they are a better value to dispos. It has it downfalls, dryer has broke and weather is shit so having trouble drying but I still prefer to use them

possibly. I have no idea why nappies become 'medical' once a child reaches 4 and the council take them away in a special collection. Least incineration deals with bacteria and viruses etc.

I agree with the classification riven. Surely all nappies are medical waste? But AFAIK it's currently more expensive to deal with medical waste than to landfill. Perhaps if our default was to incinerate, and we used the co erred energy for heat and electricity, it would be otherwise?

'in fact lets make it so only rich people can use nappies, large vehicles, city roads - in fact lets just out price petrol so only the elite can drive full stop. and whilst we're at it why don't we make the cost of gas so high that the elderly and disabled can't afford to heat their homes.. oops we already did that last one.'

ssshhhhh Osborne maybe reading!
We already cant afford petrol or heating.

dds nappies are classed as medical waste and incinerated. And the buggers leak at every single wee causing more washing. I hate them.

Never had any problems fitting an outfit over a cloth nappy. Not once.

MoreBeta perhaps

And the main reason my dh was all in favour of cloth (as he wouldn't change nappies of any kind except under extreme duresse!) was because he is a tightwad!

TBH i think the discussion about cost and the environment is diverting away from the fact that it is a feminist issue.

i've used both and i find people at both ends of the pro/anti-cloth to be talking mince. it's not that much extra work but it is some and the type of housing you live in and the level of heating you normally have on make a massive difference to the ease of use. while the financial costs of disposble nappies are not that high if you shop the way i shop (i aimed to pay 9-10p for a single Huggies nappy, and the most i ever paid was 12-13p). i actually found cloth a pain financially as it meant that lots of clothing presents went to waste as the clothes wouldn't fit over the nappy - which in effect cost me money!

i've never had the option to use a laundry service but had a friend who did and gave it up as it was still slightly more work than disposables and was costing significantly more.

celadon - modern incinerators have scrubbers and technology fitted to deal with noxious emisisons. The ash from the burn is widely used in roadfill in other countries after metal and glass has been extracted from it.

Incineration is widely used in other countries where the waste heat, not just electricty, is used to heat municipal buildings. Vienna has a well loved municipal incinerator right in the middle of the city and people there are very proud of it. Its just the Uk where we have the NIMBY attituide that we prefer to dump in landfill, out of sight out of mind, rather than build proper ways of recycling our waste.

I dont sell incinerators.

MoreBeta things have moved on a bit since then in the cloth nappy world, (if not in North Yorkshire )

Yes that's true MBJ and I think women do still feel more pressure in general to work hard in the home, sometimes also as well as out of it, and that is a feminist issue.
But we could use disposable plates, cups and cutlery, ready meals/takeaways, even buy cheap packs of babygros at Primark and throw them away instead of washing them, couldn't we, just for a few extra quid a week?
Funnily enough I could coerce my dh into putting a load of nappies in the machine (he could wear rubber gloves and hold his breath for the few seconds it took!) but he probably only changed ten nappies per baby, disposable or otherwise! (Think he found dealing with a machine easier than a baby's nether regions) [sceptical]

TheRealMBJ - spot on. When I was changing nappies the main idea was convenience and speed. I remember my mother boiling nappies, stinking nappy buckets and leaking plastic pants when my sister was a baby.

No thanks.

Oh, and another point. The real reason DH won't do nappies is because he values the 10 minutes of sitting down doing nothing after a full day's work more than the £5 it will cost him in disposable nappies.

Personally, I think women should be afforded the same rights to judge which they value higher, and it isn't for the rest of society to proscribe to them from some sort of moralistic high ground.