Rape fantasy

LRD - yes I was thinking about the chapter in the Caitlin Moran book - I think she got it spot on (and we are the same age so I completely relate to some the films she grew up with - maybe that's conditioning at work?)

wecanfixit - did you mean Nancy Friday? Definitely recommended reading iMemoo. Can anyone recommend any other good researchers/authors on women's sexual fantasies?

himalaya - ah, I understand now! You're right, I'm sure there's an element of choice. I think Caitlin Moran puts it very well when she describes how people learn to fantasize - and I also think she's right that there's a correlation between graphic portrayals of sex being available and people getting less imaginative in their fantasies.

In Dracula it was always about women getting "under his spell" so he could hae his wicked way with them and they were powerless to resist. So pretty much all of a theme really.

I frequently fantasise about a fat, juicy, red beef tomato, dressed in nothing but some olive oil, rolling about on a bed of mozerella. Mmmmmmmm

' To feed their fantasies'.... Sorry IPhone kept wanting to type 'boobies' for 'movies' too!

LRD - I am not sure we are disagreeing so much .. Maybe it's a difference of terms - I think 'conditioning' means a passive one-way process something like dog training - is that really what you meant?

I am not arguing that sexual fantasies are' innate' but that they are cocreated by people in response to what they pick up from their culture - remembering things that turned them on, playing them and replaying them and perhaps seeking out other things stories, books, moovies to sees their fantasies.

If the patriarchy, or the tomato marketing board for that matter wanted to condition us to be turned on by tomatoes I don't think they could do it. On the otherhand I don't think anyone decided to condition a large group of teenage girls to have a thing for vampires, it was just that Stephanie Meyer stumbled on a formula that lots of people liked, and now there is a whole industry in romantic vampire fiction.

Annie, I was about to post the same thing. I'm sure I remembered reading that it was about alleviating the guilt of having sex with someone that you shouldn't or performing an act that you secretly like to but daren't vocalise.

I seem to remember hearing a theory once that rape fantasy stems from women being taught that sex is bad and dirty, and that we shouldn't desire it if we're 'good' girls. So fantasising about rape is to fantasise about sex where you are having enjoyable sex against your will, thus removing the guilt element of wanting sex, if you see what I mean.

So it says more about socially conditioned views on women and sex than you personally.

himalaya - I'm not convinced.

First thing is, I know exactly the same amount about my neighbour's opinion on my clothes as as I do about her opinion on my fantasies. That is, we don't discuss it beyond certain bland, socially acceptable truisms. 'That Johnny Depp, phwoar'/'You look lovely, beautiful colour'. With people I know better both get discussed a little more. I don't think they're the same, don't get me wrong, but nor are they totally different.

I don't know if some fantasies are innate, or something we're predisposed to, but I think you're underestimating how much they are socially conditioned. Fantasies do vary from culture to culture and time to time. Mills and Boon don't just churn out the same thing year on year (honest!), they realize their best-sellers go out of date. I think what we see and hear about has a huge, huge influence on what we go on to find sexy.

jazzicats I guess you mean that men don't tend to fantasise about being raped?

They certainly fantasise about being in a submissive role though
And fantasise about raping if the top stories on literotica are anything to go by...

Conditioning is incredibly important in this as from what I can gather rape fantasies are a woman's number one fantasy but never a man's. That is surely therefore more than just being about sex but another example of women's subordinated role in the patriarchy!

LRD - I don't think conditioning is quite such a straightforward one-way process, particularly when it comes to something as private as which images and situatations we chose to store and retrieve from our personal mental Rolodex of fantasies.

with conditioning about what you wear for example, you get all kinds of feedback on what others are wearing, how people react to you etc...but with sexual fantasies it's all going on in our heads, we don't usually know what fantasies our friends and neighbours like (!) and we are not looking for approval from others just for the 'ones that work' for us.

I do think there is a kind of self-conditioning of finding our own tried and tested library of fantasies and going back to them. And then I guess there is a feedback loop for people who are trying to work out what sells --from Mills and Boon to bonkbuster to teen vampire love stories to erotic movies and stories and porn.

My guess is that women's sexual fantasies are less 'vanilla' than the 'Diet Coke Break' image of women's sexual fantasies portrayed in popular media and magazines, and are more of a 'My Secret Garden' of personal weirdness

I think we're conditioned to think that kind of scenario is sexy. I'm not sure it'd be a common fantasy without that conditioning.

You should read Nancy Blacks Book all about fantasy called Black Friday it will help you understand that fantasies are just that and nothing whatsoever to be ashamed or guilty about , cos it is all in your head.

isn't it more that we may fantasise about our partner (or whoever we are fantasising about at that time) being so overwhelmed with passion for us they can not hold back on having sex with us and us enjoying that power and the sex

rape is not about sex it is about power, control and using sex to have that power and control

i would never say i fantasize about being raped but yes of course i have though that robert downey jnr would be so taken aback with lust and attraction upon meeting me he could not help himself, but i would be having multiple orgasms too so it would be an enjoyable experience

I think so.

Ditto acting out a sub/dom type scenario with a trusted partner is completely different to being in a non consensual or coerced situation.

So no probs there either.

On a very basic level - there is a world of difference between being held down and having something nice happen and being held down and have someone do something horrible to you. Can you think of it like that?

It's hard to imagine the true forcefulness of a rape if you've not been in that situation. (I know not all rapes are violent but most of the rape fantasy ones involve force i'm guessing.)

Rape fantasy is a fantasy that you are having, so while you are fantasising about loss of control and rape, you are actually in total control as it is your fantasy - it runs exactly as you want it to.

So in fact while it is a "rape fantasy" it is nothing actually whatsoever to do with rape.

I think that sexuality is complicated and if you're not hurting anyone (including yourself - not that I think you are - just wanted that disclaimer in!) then it's OK.