Separatist Feminism

having watched 'made in dagenham' recently, it struck me how the unions were colluding with the manufacturers to prevent women receiving equal pay. even an organization meant to protect the workers, only wanted to protect the male workers.

also, there was the usual 'we can't afford to pay more, the factory will close and you'll all lose your jobs' line.

well, if they can't pay their workers without going bust, they obviously are doing something wrong. Yet it was the underpaid women, working in skilled manual labour, who were blamed for it.

ok, that was a while ago, but that 'blaming the victim' attitude is still highly prevalent.
want to have a baby out of wedlock? you're the one frowned on, not the man.
want to live in a female society, or even just have female only swimming sessions? that's taking advantage, it's pc gone mad.

i want to change these things but without having to overthrow society, demonize the males, ruin the economy.

i'd just like us all to be respectful to each other, whether someone is a CEO of a multi-national, or a sahp. the age, sex, color etc of that person should be irrelevant. if they do a good job is more important.

There are also those on this forum who'd love to call anyone who did so an idiot, though, SaF.

They would be wrong though SAF...you know what right for you and your family...and if it is another baby, then do it.(sorry to be directive!)..

(thank fuck, sakura, that you've said what i've also said on this thread: we're not saying women are all so perfect that a separatist life would be unicorns made of rainbows- we're saying there'd be less-to-no rape, violence, and harrassment. But apparently stating that as a fact is a massive attack on ALL MEN EVERYWHERE OMGZWHATABOUTTEHMENZ!21) For fuck's sake. It's because I care about the men that I tell the truth about what patriarchy makes them.

OOoh, isn't it awful that I read this thread but what prompted me to comment was the idea of saf maybe having another baby? I am clearly baby-on-the-brain broody at the moment!

SaF, that is very sad to read - I'm so angry on your behalf that you are made to feel like this!

Although I haven't toed the line for years and it upsets and unsettles people
I keep getting asked if I wouldn't like to "find" someone

Like there are these gorgeous intelligent egalitarian men hiding all over the place and I just haven't been energetic enough to go and find them...

And women like all of us of course - most of us toe the line because it's just so exhausting not to

Which is precisely why those sanctions exist SaF - to ensure that women like you toe the line more often than not.

"The whole concept that women are innately better then men is the worst type of fluffy gender stereotyping"

Sorry, I missed that bit. Where's that?

I don't think Sakura said she was plotting to remove her children from her husband did she? She clearly said something about co-operating with him to raise their children and separatism being the ultimate aim for her. I seem to have interpreted that differently from you, GothAnne

Right, and working class women, women of colour haven't found themselves reduced to similar roles in the women's movement. Please. There is a lot out there about how various women have felt marginalised by feminism. Why do you think Womenism exists? And don't say it is because they aren't clever enough/have been fooled/don't understand.

You're using tired revolutionary rhetoric that has failed for many other sections/movements in the past. Just do action 'x' (in this case overthrow the patriarchy...somehow) and we will all be free and happy! Four legs good, two legs bad!

If you want to divorce your husband because you're unhappy, go ahead. But don't do it for some ill conceived idea of the greater good, or because of some bloggers out there egging you on.

There is a lot, a lot to be said for treating others the way we wish to be treated.

If I knew my husband was secretly planning to leave me (bearing in mind, I love my husband and treat him well) and take my child because he reckoned he loved her more then I could, I was disturbing their bond and I wasn't good enough to live with, I would be devasted and on so many levels. That is not some moral act.

kickassangel,
I would love an egalitarian society. That's the aim, of course. BUt patriarchy will have to be overthrown first for that to happen. Otherwize it's just going to be more of the same.

"various power differential"

There are no "various power differentials" A woman's race or wealth may protect her from the worst excesses of patriarchy, but her relative "privilege" is derivative. Patriarchies set up class and race antagonizm because it serves the men at the top. A middle class woman can become poor overnight if her husband leaves her. A white eastern european who is being trafficked for sex is no safer than a black middle class woman in america/

Men tell us we should concentrate on cass, race, ethnicity.. intersectionality--- but that is just ways of diluting the women's movement and throwing women off the scent. Sex based oppression is the original oppression. It is the oppression that must be overthrown.

Black women in AMerica learned that votes for black "people" acutally meant votes for black men . Black men abandoned them.

Women of the anarchist movement, women of the communist revolution in Russia, find themselves relegated to making cups of tea in order to support men's "movements"

If you want to see any real change, support feminsim.

GotheAnne,

I'm not saying women are better than men.
I'm saying they don't rape, create porn empires off the backs of an exploited class, they don't traffic women and young girls for sex, they tend not to massacre people like that Norwegian guy; they don't settle disputes with wars; they have never raped and massacred entire villages like AMericans in Vietnam. They haven't slaughtered millions of the opposite sex like men did in the witch-crazes just so their religion would be accepted by the masses.
Women have never lobotomized men who didn'T live up to their version of sanity, they have never forced girls to have their clitorises exised to cure masturbation the way the victorians did (FGM in Africa and foot-binding in china was done by mothers because patriarchal men would not marry a woman who had not been mutilated.

Men have done all these things, and worse. And continue to do so.

That's all I'm saying.

Sakura - You're going dump your husband and the father of your children, who you claim to respect, for some half baked piece of wishful thinking?

The whole concept that women are innately better then men is the worst type of fluffy gender stereotyping and that a society run by women would be this wonderous place of justice and peace is a very narrow view of the various power differentials that effect us all.