Pornography vs. erotic fantasy

Although I think I may need to start reading stories without anyone called Edward or Bella at some point in my life

Yes that's true. I think fanfiction is extremely special in a lot of ways, the same way everyone knowing the characters makes it easier to write also means that even when you write a PWP out of canon it still comes with built in context for the readers who know what the characters perosnalities are like.

I have a Harry/Draco novel bookmarked on Delicious, but luckily he doesn't wear leather pants. I blame the author, if she didn't write such fantastic other pairings I'd have never have tried that one...

I only read fanfic 'erotic fiction' and although amongst ourselves we joke about it being porn, in many cases it isn't. Some of the most erotic stories I read have 'faded to black' as they've got into really hard core scenes. Even with the most graphic PWP (porn without plot, although there's other interpretations I believe) there's an underlying relationship. You can write fic like that because the reader knows the fanon/canon/back story. It will never be two random nameless strangers bumping uglies, it will always have more depth than that. Personally (and that's important I think - your kink is not my kink and all that) if I don't care about a character I have no interest in reading about their sex lives, no matter how well written.

mumwith that is FOUL.

I'm reporting your post to MN for vile obscenity now and I have no doubts as to their response ...

bella - true. I know someone who started out writing fanfic and is now published. Ok, Dh knows her. But it is rather exciting.

That some should be in italics

Some fanfic is crap?! Overwhelmingly most of it is dire. But the really good stuff is exquisite.

Maud scares the fuck out of me, I think she's my supervisor fictionalized. No thanks, not sexy.

Cross-post ... actually, I like that formulation, it makes sense to me.

Oh Oh I think I know the AS Byatt sex bit - the last bit of Possession where he finally possesses the self possessed Maud.

She came at dawn, as I recall

Oh, yes, hadn't thought of that LaW but you're right.

Someone I know was reading some crappy self-help book that claimed all women when not 'brainwashed by our society's feminist agenda' (snort) dream of a manly man who can rescue them ... I think maybe Mills & Boon have something to answer for here!

I was ages trying to articulate my point above, but am really not very clearheaded at the mo, so I just strung some words together and hoped someone would grasp it.

I think what I mean is, erotica is about people and porn is about genitals.

Still not clear...

I would agree that erotic fiction can easily be as crap as visual porn. Especially if you use the chance to have a female voice and have them think a load of complete nonsense.

I can't think of it ever being worse though.

Thanks mooncup.

Right then, that's me done for the night, see you all tomorrow.

No.

Sorry, bleeeeeuggh at the idea of 'sexy' A S Byatt novels!

Sinical - yes, I think so. I think this is why erotic writing can be just as crap as visual porn, because it can give no voice to the woman. I remember reading about that hoax blogger who pretended to be a lesbian, that some people thought what he did was buying into the exploitative 'exotic women' erotica because he insisted that his little stories were good substitutes for real women's voices.

It's in Still Life LRD - I've forgotten the names of the characters now so I'm afraid you'll have to reread the whole thing

I am slightly scared to be in feminism, so glad I'm not on my own so far!

Not sure what you mean SinicalSal?

Oh yes, good erotic fiction is all about the build up. When the author makes you wait for ages.

You just don't get that on film, because that's not seen as the 'point' of porn.

That whole context thing - isn't that the very core of the objectification argument.

at BB.

Erm, me too. But I like to think the rest of you are sophisticated adults, you see.

Some fanfic is incredibly badly written - I hate it when someone uses a word that just grates and you want the brain bleach. (And, oh Lord, I could have lived without knowing there were people who wrote whole multi-chapter 'novels' about Harry and Draco's mad forbidden love).

I STILL do that LRD

Oh, and how could I forget to ask - what's the famous sexy scene in A S Byatt?

I don't know though, I've read erotic fiction and various fanfictions etc and certain things just grate on me. Ridiculous euphemisms for genitalia. Even some of the less explicit phrases make me feel really uncomfortable reading it.

I think you can get context on film, it just takes longer to set up, usually.