How 'feminist' are you on a sliding scale?

& this, THIS is why I never post in feminism.

It's far too nuanced as a subject.

There will always be a poster who believes my definition, experience or ideas are, in some way, 'letting the side down'.

I find the idea that 'capitalism is just a sub-section of the patriarchy' and such arguments a little alienating. Do you really believe that? I certainly don't view capitalism as an unalloyed good but find the patriarchy argument a little specious.

Anyway, if anyone cares anymore - I am a 'ragged' feminist, I believe in choice, I belive in femininity, I believe in difference & I believe in equality.

If you ask me the 'burqa question' I think I woman's right not to be subjugated trumps religious sensibilities every time.

However I also find the pornification & ermpowerment line utterly self-defeating, illogical & nauseating.

FWIT's worth, I'm a SAHM with the hairiest fanny in the world (hence the name).

I am a socialist feminist.

And I dont believe in 'equality', it's just a line peddled to us by capitalism. I believe in liberation.

We've concerned ourselves fighting for equality ( actually, id go further and say we've been deliberately sidetracked) when liberation of women should be our goal.

I don't really believe in sliding scales of feminism.

I'm radical in that I don't believe that in our current capitalist system we can ever have equality, capitalism is just a sub-section of patriarchy. Capitalism was built on slavery, without the free labour provided by the trans-atlantic slave trade, we would never have had that sudden influx of consumer goods and the opportunities for leisure and entertainment, the leisure and time of so many talented people to study and invent new technology and build a consumer society (we would have got there, but it might have taken a couple more centuries or longer), but prior to capitalism, all the other patriarchal societies always needed a slave class to do its shit-work for it and that class ahs mostly been women. We need to do away with patriarchy and its in-built, deep-rooted assumptions about women, men and sex, in order to get true equality.

But I wax my legs, wear make up and high heels and aim to meet the patriarchal beauty standards so that I can shag sexually attractive men (whom I don't want to live with and do free domestic labour for), because I'm aware that the pool of shaggable men might be a lot smaller and less attractive without the attempt to meet the patriarchal beauty standards. (and LOL, every morning I do really look in the mirror and think "OK, am meeting the patriarchal beauty standards, hope the kids are ready to go" ) Also I am aware that I have internalised the beauty assumptions - I look at pictures of Audrey Hepburn and find her stunningly beautiful, I think I look better with lipstick on, but know that if I were an obscure tribeswoman, I would find elongated necks or ear-lobes, or that woman with a big disc in her lower lip, much more beautiful than Audrey Hepburn who would simply look like an underfed pasty freak. So I'm conscious that my assumptions have been formed by my culture and experience, not just my individual, atomised response.

Not sure where that places me on the scale tbh.

I'm a woman, I draw breath, ergo I'm a feminist.

Not bothered about any of the 'spheres' of feminism, just believe in global equality. Simple and obvious and good.

I shave my legs. Big fucking woop. It does not detract from my fundamental belief that I am as good as anyone, absolutely ANYONE else. Whether or not they have a penis.

I am the sort of feminist who has been around the block enough times to be slightly amused by earnest lectures about Dworkin et al. Been there, gone on the march, knitted the jumper (photos exist) and have made an uneasy compromise with living in a nuclear family (a concept that still makes me shudder) with a man (whom I refuse to marry).

I am also the sort of feminist who felt uneasy about the Greenhammy identification of women=Peace and Niceness in the early 1980s and now feels uneasy with the idea of women=Mothers and deserving of Special Womanly Consideration.

And I write for women's glossies sometimes and enjoy it .

I am in the Nouveau Feminist camp too. All of that what Bumperlicicus said.

I always twitch that this board is called Feminism/Women's Rights. I would be more comfortable if it was called Feminism/Equality.

I measure the sexism/feminism rating of an issue by considering "does this affect men too?". Religious clothing is one thing I struggle with. The times I see men and boys in branded/designer wear and baseball caps trailed by their mothers in full niqab and even quite young sisters covered up... bothers me. If it's religiously important to dress modestly, which I completely support and respect, you put the equivalent gear on as well, mate. (I have never actually gone and said this)

Equality isn't all about catching up, or having "rights", or aspiring to be just as workaholic and macho as the men. Take flexible working patterns - the legislation says people with caring responsibilities have a specific set of rights to ask for it from their employer. It might not be seen as a drain on small to medium businesses when it's something which all sorts of people do for their work life balance rather than closely tied to "the women and their childcare needs".

So, I would say there are many many "feminist issues" particularly in the employment area where actually it's the men who have the problem. Calm it down a bit and stop being so over the top competitive, and we can all play to our strengths.

I am quite hairy, and also quite feminist. But the degree of my hairiness does not make me more feminist than people who wax, it's just the way I choose to express my feminism.

I love BerkshireFem's line 'We are all an equal amount of woman.'

Maybe 'resisting femininity' works better with quotes: 'resisting "femininity"'.

Out of curiosity, how what are the thoughts for scoring men for feminism? What does a radical male feminist look like?

...Just realized this is a tangent, apologies if it is too far off-topic. Would be interested to hear thoughts though.

I like to think of myself as a nouveau feminist. At school I grew up with the belief that women could have it all, a career and a family. at college I kept up with the boys and indulged in their misogynistic games in the name of liberation and openness. At university I had one night stands and talked about sex a lot with my girlfriends, we were so SATC, we didn't need men, we had friends. We didn't need feminism, we were free, we had won.

Late 20's and 2 daughters hit as did reality. We are nowhere near free, the game is nowhere near over and I find myself ashamed and embarrassed at my past behaviour and naiveity and am making up for it now, boring everyone with my 'hi I'm a feminist' like a newly outed teenage boy who's just discovered the gay scene.

Portofino, I totally agree. When I go into my work and see the work that LSAs do for special needs children and for very little money I realize how undervalued those caring roles are. I think our society has been derailed by this love of money but because it has been like this for so long I can't envisage how any other system would work.

I'm never sure where I fit - I am learning all the time and thinking hard about how to bring up my dd with a strong believe that she as equal as anyone, and can achieve what she wants if she works for it.

I believe rape and dv is totally unacceptable and that we need to educate our boys that this is the case, and our girls that they should not accept living under the male "thumb".

I don't agree though on the focus that achieving equality is having the most money or the top jobs, more that we should focus on equal parental leave and that there should be much more importance/value placed on caring roles in society. These roles are traditionally done by women and are undervalued. I want to see a culture where men equally take time off to care for sick kids/elderly parents.

I also think that there is no "sliding-scale" of feminists really, or a tick box you can use to diferentiate between them. I also think you can be a feminist while sometimes still holding on to ideas that are probably not compatible with all forms of feminism. This can cause friction, however, and you should be aware that it is not an obligation for feminists to agree with everything other feminists say.

Me I am fairly radical in my opinions, but less so in my approach. I think even the most radical positions can be achieved gradually through the exisiting political structure. I see it as a long term struggle which isn't going to be won in my lifetime and quite possibly not in my daughter's. But I am a historian and do tend to see things through that perspective. I also think that a top down approach will never work on its own (ie changing laws); change has to be enacted at the most basic of levels in society before it will have an impact. This requires education, campaigning and the example of many role models.

I think that I'm a liberal/socialist feminist. I see the oppression of women as a strand in the wider oppression of the weak by the strong. I think that patriarchy is bound up in themes of class hierarchy and power structures that oppress not just women.

I do believe that rape and violence, and tolerance of rape and violence, is systematically used to keep women in their place but that's about as close to most radfem thinking as I get.

I'm dyed, inked, pierced and generally dress like a refugee from a nuclear attack on a burlesque show though, so I think I would fail the Dworkin test.

I am very definitely a diehard feminist with socialist leanings, i see gender everywhere, I agitate about sexism and equality, I'm involved in feminist activism and i'm interested in feminist theory.

I am not a radical feminist though, not a fan of Andrea Dworkin etc, and therefore on some mumsnet threads I'm a sad apology for a feminist, one who's long ago rolled over for the patriarchy. But that is just on the slightly bizarre alternative reality of mumsnet.

The issue of what you look like is not a feminist one to me. i mean, i get that is is I'm not naive. I realise that a lot of the beauty practices we perform on ourselves is because of pressures from society to be a certain way.
But as someone else said below; we are females therefore we are feminine. I don't think I am more feminine than another woman because I have long nails. We are all an equal amount of woman.

The sliding scale to me I suppose would be how active you are... not whether you shave your pubic hair or not.

I am more at the radical end too as I think that the current systems need to be changed to enable equality.

With regards femininity, this is a construct - i.e. society has decided what is feminine and what is masculine in order to put people into boxes (stereotype them). That is separate from what sex we are i.e. male or female. I think if you recognise where the impetus to do things such as wear makeup, shave legs and pubic hair etc comes from and recognise why men are not required to do this to the same extent then that is the feminist analysis. The fact that you participate in some of those feminine activities is only natural because of societal pressure.

More at the radical end and i think capitalism is detrimental to feminism while giving the illusion of potential equality. So im a socialist too.
Oh, and im all about reclaiming my religion from the men who have hijacked it and used it to keep women down. Right on sisters.

i am a Feminist with a big Fuck off F :o

not really i am jsut a feminist, the more i learn the more struggles i see. i want us to be equal, but i understand the differences. i want women to no longer be second class citizens in this world. i hate this idea that all feminists are man hating, do not shave their legs and all think the same. surely feminism is about women being themselves, knowing their own mind and that we do not all agree is a great thing

if asked i will always say that i am and very proud to be a feminist and that i admire famous feminists. that does not mean i agree with everything that is said by them

Ding Dong, sorry, the words never come out right!!.

What I mean is it seems a bit odd that we should worry about being feminine when the reality is we are feminine by simple virtue of being female.

Why exactly is a spike on the end of a shoe considered to be feminine? Why is shaving considered feminine? Did Mr Ape look at Mrs Ape and think "you need a bit of Immac love!"

Why were corsets considered to be feminine? Why aren't nice little puddingy muffin tops not considered so? Cos I bet more women have them than 22 inch waists..

Depends on the issue. Sometimes I feel that the patriarchy needs to be gotten rid of, no matter what the cost; other times I feel that patriarchy is never, ever going to go away and therefore we need to fight within it; other times I see very clearly that it's economics that needs changing; and on and on it goes.

I don't think it matters because I don't think any one 'brand' of feminism is any 'more' feminist than any of the others. I may take issue with certain beliefs of each brand (me and the 'poledancing is liberation for EVERYONE!' crew are never really going to agree, although if a woman is prepared to tell me that she personally benefits, I'm not going to tell her otherwise - see, woolly!) but none of the brands have all the answers. It's worth noting that 'radical' means 'root', not 'extreme'.

It can be loosely summarised by picturing an issue's proximity to the body. If it's very close - like access to abortion, for example, or pregnancy rights or beauty practices - then I adopt radical arguments. If it's very far away - like feminist analysis of a novel - then my woolly liberal/postmodern side comes into play.

I'm sure I'll probably think of plenty of exceptions the second I press 'post'...

DingDong my personal POV on 'resisting femininity' is what a wise poster on this section once said to me: It's about separating the fun from the burdensome' (you could add personal preference to fun as well, but it's not as snappy ).

I don't think feminists believe that women should stop shaving their armpits if they prefer the way it makes them feel etc. They're just challenging the fact that women are judged so much more on their appearance than men are, and that the standards of women's beauty is so much higher and often involves pain or even long-term physical problems. It's up for each individual woman to then assess how much she does because it's expected of her, how much she does because she's feels less attractive/worthy if she doesn't, and how much she does because she genuinely likes it. Some women will stop wearing makeup when they analyse this. Others will continue because because it's how they want to express their personality.

I don't know, I'm just me :) I'm not sure it can be put on a simple linear scale either really. I guess there are lots of different issues within feminism, and many people including myself only focus on ones that impact on their lives directly.

For example my main bugbear is gender stereotyping of children - toys, clothes etc. Also things like diet ads, airbrushing etc. But as I don't really encounter sexism in my daily life, I don't tend to think about feminist views of the workplace and so on.

I don't think there is a simple sliding scale. Different feminists recognise different underlying causes of women's oppression and therefore have different priorities about what they work on. I think there is a big over-lap between capitalism and patriarchy but they are not the same thing. I am a feminist who is also concerned about wider issues of inequality and human rights and I think that some things are about other structures of power than gender.

I used to identify more as a socialist feminist than a radical feminst, but am starting to think those distinctions aren't always useful. I campaign on violence against women among other things, which is often seen as a radical feminist priority. I worked for years at the Fawcett Society, which was seen as a liberal feminist organisation because it lobbied within existing structures of power, but I lobbied alongside some very radical feminist sisters.... People are more complicated than the boxes we put ourselves in.

As for the whole shaving, waxing whatever thing it's been said several times on here that the point is not feminists saying other women 'shouldn't' do these things, but questioning why we feel that we need to do them. I think SGB has made good points before about the difference between a human urge to dress up and specific pressures to look a particular way (sorry if I am mis-quoting, i tend to read at speed on my phone so may miss bits!).

I sometimes shave my legs and sometimes wear make up. Feminist readings haven't made me think I must stop, but they have made me aware of the extent to which these things are not free 'choices' but constructed and constrained by the society I live in.

Feminism is central to the way I look at the world and the work I do, so I guess the answer would be 'very'!

I don't think of myself as radical, but am aware that I am compared to a lot of others. And I agree with joaniha re economics. Capitalism is a major culprit.