Breastfeeding what are the politics?

DH's G-G-Grandmother was the only one of 9 or 10 not to be BF and was always ill. She was apparently (according to DH's aunt) very very pro. I wish I'd met her but hse was veryy happy that DH's aunt nursed her children to 11 months, 2 years and 2.5 years and DH's aunt his been a real encouragement to me too. She's fab :)

WoT I have had exactly the same experience. Older (and I mean properly older ) people of either sex seem relatively relaxed about it. My gran even told me that her mother recommended feeding until 2

SGM - 16:19:42 - Lots of elderly men admiring the baby. We're in conservative country so its not like these elderly men are all pro-feminist lefties but they still come up to chat regardless of baby feeding and no one bats an eye lid

Interestingly I find that older folk are often teh most open minded and pro-BF. In my particular circumstances I'm form a 'BF family' but only my grandmother and grandfather are really very comfortable with me nursing past around 2 yeras.
I've also noticed out and about the positive comments either come from parents of my generation who have breatfeeding or have a opartner who breastfeeds or from 70+ year olds.
I think it must either be down to detachment; they aren't so involved int he child-rearing side of things and don't feel judged or to it having been the normal way of feeding babies when they grew up and were raising families.

(when I had blue/pink/green hair it was was always the little old ladies who were most enthusiastic too )

If you have a domestic set-up with 2 adults and 1 baby (and maybe more kids), there is NO WAY that the non-breastfeeding adult, if (s)he sincerely wants to be involved and constructive, would ever run out of things to do because only the other adult can feed the baby. Any adult who is sitting on his or her arse doing nothing, not "bonding", not helping, not parenting, "because the other adult is the only one who can feed the baby", is BULLSHITTING.

Sicky!

Going back to your post that was meant to be on this thread, I do agree that some things can be easier when you're on your own. DP and I weren't living together when ds arrived. He stayed sometimes but it was my place, my rules.

I wonder how different it would have been otherwise?

Breasts are tremendous! I FF DS1 and BF DS2 until he was 17months or so. DP shared feeds with me with DS1, even taking a midweek shift when he had work the next morning because DS1 was very unsettled and difficult. With DS2 he did the nappy changes for the first month (I had a CS), spent time in other ways with the baby doing things and then he gave the solids when we started weaning. They had NO problems bonding after the first few months, DS2 is a Daddy's boy all the way.

Frankly I love my breasts, they performed the role of milk producer well, and we both enjoy them sexually. BF isn't for everyone, lack of support, misinformation being all too common. IMO BF doesn't make you less independent, just the opposite, you can pump if you want to, I just found it too much hassle and it solved the bickering over who washed the bottles and put them in the steriliser last time.

I never experienced any negativity and was surprised how easy I found it to do, subtly, in public, when I'd been very nervous about it beforehand. I was fully prepared to put some well rehearsed put-downs into practise if needed though!

and oops again! wrong thread!

its... sorry

"every dog has it's day, and i suppose, rebekah brooks is that dog." from milly dowler's family lawyer

yy Norman - the intimacy. I can completely understand that. I BF and loved it, but by the time ds reached 18mo I began to understand how queen cats feel when they start batting their kittens away. The intimacy is wonderful, but it can get too intense in that particular form. Perhaps some people's thresholds are different, or they reach that threshold at a different point.

I'm not suggesting that the bond I had and intimacy I shared with ds was stronger than that of ff friends with their dcs - hence the bold.

I'm a single parent of a small baby and have breastfed from day one with little problem. I fully intend to continue to do so for as long as I can and he wants - work permitting.

I have several friends who are in relationships with babies of a similar age (circa 5 months) who don't necessarily struggle with either of the two main partner arguments: "boobs are sexual" or "when do i get to feed the baby?", but do have issues with night feeding routines and the balance between disrupted sleep for the parent working out of the home, and the best interests of the baby.

It's been qute an eye-opener for me, as I feed my baby on demand in bed (we co-sleep), and the idea that I'd have to consider anyone else's needs, but my baby's during the night is just very hard to get my head around.

Some friends move into the baby's room and leave their partner to the main bed. Some continue to all share a room, but feel uncomfortable about - as if it's very hard to compromise.

I just don't know how I'd feel if I was told I couldn't turn a light on, or move around etc., at night when feeding.

However, I do understand that disrupted sleep is vile and if one person can avoid it so they function better (and possibly contribute in others ways at different times of the day), then that's also a good thing.

Many women have difficulties with the intimacy of breastfeeding,I think, rather than the sexualisation of breasts - although that's part of it too.

I've always had a rather pragmatic attitude towards feeding - I think it's all very well telling women it's our public health resposibility to breastfeed, but our culture and the way our society operates often makes it difficult.

I also think women are more than capable of deciding how to run their lives and the bf/ff dichotomy proceeds in much the same manner as the tedious SAHM/ WOHM 'debates' on here.

Yes, breasts ARE sexual bit they are ALSO for feeding children. There is absolutely no need for them to be one ore the other.

I feed my son (18 month old) with mine and both DH and I derive sexual pleasure from them. I don't really understand this strange compartmentalisation. More over, they are a powerful symbol of my strength and ability to nourish and sustain my children without reliance on any man.

And they are mine. Mine to use and mine to give.

Wall is Canadian, Stewie, there is alot of qualitative research from Canada and Australia which offers fascinating insights into womens experiences

murphy, breast is best

this is australian

And

Wall, G (2001) Moral Constructions of Motherhood in Breastfeeding Discourse, Gender and Society, Vol. 15, No. 4 (Aug., 2001), pp. 592-610

I can't get a link for this but can post some quotes, this is a study of literature promoting breastfeeding:

"Good motherhood is clearly connected with breastfeeding in this material. To
choose not to breastfeed is to risk your baby's health and to place your commitment to good motherhood in question. If "breastfeedingis a special gift you can give to
your baby," it is either a selfish or an irrational mother who would withhold it
(Alberta Health 1996). Implied in this discourse, then, is mothers' moral obligation
to breastfeed, an obligation that is lent authority through its connection with cultural
constructions of nature and motherhood.
As both Carter (1995, 206) and Blum (1999, 120, 161) suggest, the reasons
women fail to breastfeeda re not linked to irrationalityo r lack of understanding on the part of mothers about the benefits of breastfeeding Nor are they linked to a lack
of concern among mothers about their babies' well-being. They are instead, to a
greate xtent, social in naturea ndr eflect structuraal nd culturalf actorst hatl imit the
choices women have when it comes to caring for their children. Here, as in other
areas of child rearing, the emphasis is on maternal responsibility while taking for
granted a cultural model of natural, intensive, self-sacrificing, and isolated motherhood
(Hays 1996)...
.

S.orry have to go a be a good mother and cook the dinner,,,

ComradeJing the "husband wants my boobs back" is equally grim. My breasts are mine. Not dp's.

But they are sexual - they look good and they feel good (to me and to whomever I share them with).

I suppose ds got first dibs on them for a while but other than that 18 month period they are mine and mine alone to share as I see fit. Even when I say ds had first dibs, that was my choice.

Their form has been more significant in my life than their function for most of their existence. I don't like to think of them only having been there to feed ds because although they have indeed done that - they've done a lot more besides.

Jenai - breasts are designed for breast-feeding. That is the intention of their existence - it is a choice to sexualise them.

I'm actually in the process of switching from BF to FF for a few reasons and have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand the convenience of it is brilliant. On the other I'm looking forward to not getting my boobs out in a country where only expats bf in public. I'm going to miss the snuggly, sleepy, milky moments that are just ours but I'm looking forward to having a few really big drinks before I hopefully get pregnant again.

That's beside the point however.

Jenai I do think you're right to a degree but I bet that 50 years ago no woman ever said, "I need to stop bfing because my husband wants my boobs back." Now it seems it's ok for a man to say that and not be told "off you fuck." Surely that is the sexualisation of breasts?

My experience of bfing was one of huge freedom. I didn't have stuff to make or lug around. I appreciate that I was very lucky having found it extremely easy for all my dc right from birth.
But I gained a much greater sense of control of my enviromen. It was one thing I didn't have to ore pan or think about.

It didn't separate dh from the dc. His bonding was in other ways including taking happy fed baby from me in the middle of the night to change/settle/sooth/cuddle.
All good

I've not read the stuff that Norman will hopefully link to when she gets back, but it rings very true to me.

I really dislike talk of breasts having been sexualised. They've always been sexual, surely? They're nice to look at and men don't have them. I'm sure lesbians like them on other women, too. The idea that breasts' primary function is to feed babies strikes me as (ahem) feeding into the kind of moralisation (should that word exists!) Norman is referring to.

Now nipples and milk ducts - their primary function is to feed babies. But the extra cushioning/volume isn't needed for that.

There is feminist discourse research into how pregnancy and bf has become moralised through public health promotion - the idea that s bf is a 'good mother' in line with the rhetoric of 'naturalness' and of being ' a good girl.
Have to go out but will link later if you are interested...

Although a positive often mentioned of formula feeding is that fathers can share night feeds, in my experience of friends this doesn't often happen - especially not once paternity leave has finished. I found breastfeeding very easy in the night, it didn't really disturb my sleep too much, and as has been mentioned it meant DP took on a lot of the rest of the housework.

Formula "freeing" women mostly seems to come down to not having to hold your baby too much, not having to spend too much time with it, being able to go back to work quicker, being able to do more housework - none of those things sound like benefits to me!

I don't know much about the politics of it, but I BF my first for 3 months then went on to FF as I went back to work. With baby no. 2 I BF for 8 months, and never gave him a bottle at all - he went straight from me to a feeder beaker.

My thoughts, for what they're worth, are (assuming the woman has an equal choice of whether to BF or FF, and I know not everyone does) - BF is extremely convenient, you can 'bung a boob' at a moment's notice, without having to mix formula, sterilise, warm and generally faff on. Also, there's no waste - if you start a bottle but toots isn't very hungry, you have to chuck the rest out. Yes, it means the woman has all the feeding to do - erm, yeah, you've just had a baby, what did you expect. Personally, I would rather do all the feeding than have to faff on with all the FF paraphenalia on the off-chance that someone else might occasionally do a feed for me. Partners can still help - feeding isn't the only thing a baby needs. Our night-time routine was - baby wakes up, Dad goes and gets him, changes nappy if needed, brings him to me in bed, I feed him and put him back. No-one feels hard-done-to.