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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is osteoporosis a feminist issue?

37 replies

garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 13:13

I came to this after researching nutritional guidance for a friend with advanced osteoporosis. She won't take my advice. She's a beautiful, bird-like vegan with many food intolerances and food dislikes. She has never eaten a fully-balanced diet.

That led me to become interested in women's (often unconscious) attitudes to food. I found many, many women who automatically give the larger protein portion to the men. I found, of course, thousands of women with long-term eating disorders. I also noticed that, amongst the smaller-portion women, there were many who snack later: this may well be due to protein insufficiency but a yoghurt, crisps or chocolate bar won't compensate nutritionally.

I'm just throwing this out there in case anyone's interested.

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garlicnutter · 12/07/2011 16:30

.. a factor which distinguishes women from men Grin

Though, as I'm menopausal, perhaps I'm not a woman?? Eeek. Less oestrogen, you see, I'm clearly going to crumble to ashes any minute now.

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garlicnutter · 12/07/2011 16:28

That page you quote, WG, also says "Women are at greater risk of developing osteoporosis than men. This is because changes in hormone levels can affect bone density. The female hormone oestrogen is essential for healthy bones. After the menopause, the level of oestrogen in the body falls, and this can lead to a rapid decrease in bone density."

It doesn't make sense - how can women be at greater risk than men due to depleted oestrogen, when men have less oestrogen to start with?

But I would suggest that long-term dieting (both deliberate and unconscious) is a factor which distinguishes women from me, and may affect bone density.

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WhollyGhost · 12/07/2011 16:18

The causes of osteoporosis are given here:
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Osteoporosis/Pages/Causes.aspx

Women are at an even greater risk of developing osteoporosis when:

?they have an early menopause (before the age of 45)
?they have a hysterectomy before the age of 45, particularly when the ovaries are also removed
?their periods are absent for a long time (more than six months) as a result of over-exercising or over-dieting

If you have a disease of the hormone-producing glands, you may be at higher risk of developing osteoporosis.

Other factors that can increase the risk of osteoporosis and broken bones include:

?a family history of osteoporosis
?a parental history of hip fracture

?a low body mass index (BMI of 19kg/m2 or less)
?long-term use of high-dose corticosteroid treatment (widely used for conditions such as arthritis and asthma), which can affect bone strength
?heavy drinking and smoking
?rheumatoid arthritis

?malabsorption problems, as experienced in coeliac disease and Crohn's disease
?some drugs used in breast cancer and prostate cancer treatment which affect hormone levels
?long periods of inactivity, such as long-term bed rest

WhollyGhost · 12/07/2011 16:13

My mother has osteoporosis - she has always been on a diet, as long as I remember. Many of the diets were bizarre (there was a year where she seemed to eat only eggs). Going to a restaurant with her was always embarassing for us, as she had a crazy list of foods that she claimed she could not eat.

When she was diagnosed with osteoporosis, she was tested for wheat intolerance, as it can seemingly be a factor. Although we know that all the tests came back as negative, my mother has still found it necessary to cut all gluten from her diet (yes, I know they are not the same thing). As she is still food combining as well as suddenly excluding anything that might possibly contain a trace of gluten, she has a very peculiar and restricted diet.

I am convinced that she has had an eating disorder for as long as I can remember and that her dieting might have been a factor in her developing osteoporosis. I bet that there are many like her.

On the other hand, I've always had an enthusiastic attitude to food, especially that which is high in protein, and I've always been slim. This means that I have been accused of being bulimic on more than one occasion, by women who sit toying with salad leaves, eyeing my plate in restaurants and talking tediously about their food sins. I'd agree with a previous poster that a huge proportion of women seem to have issues with food.

WillieWaggledagger · 12/07/2011 07:33

my udnerstanding (and I am no expert) is that childbearing itself can increase risk of osteoporosis, as the baby takes the calcium. I don't know whether it's possible to replace that calcium during or after pregnancy

TimeWasting · 12/07/2011 07:27

That's very interesting Cleverything.

RE: soya, I'd been worried about that too, but have read a few articles along these lines lately - www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/01/anti-soya-brigade-ignore-scaremongering

Cleverything · 11/07/2011 13:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TimeWasting · 09/07/2011 23:25

My brain's aching from trying to understand some proper chemistry tonight. Grin
Not needed to do that in a long time.

garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 23:20

Hmm, I don't know about heredity, though it would seem logical ... am trying to restrain myself from doing a ton of late-night research; it's a bad habit of mine that must STOP!

Blimey, TW, I didn't know Quorn contained egg. Seems a bit self-defeating, no? Thanks for that. (I have no intention of giving up my carnivorous leanings, but it's good to know these things.) Bought some soya mince the other day. It was better than I expected - good for bulking up a sauce.

I'll see whether the library can get 'The Sexual Politics of Meat'.

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TimeWasting · 09/07/2011 23:15

High intake of animal protein, including dairy increases the amount of calcium the body excretes.

TimeWasting · 09/07/2011 23:14

Cholesterol and collagen are both synthesised in the body.

cory · 09/07/2011 23:06

Isn't osteoporosis partly hereditary? None of the women I know who suffer from it are vegetarians, nor have they been exposed to rationing in childhood: and some of them are Swedish so have always had a diet very high in calcium (drinking large quantities of milk). They have all led healthy active lifestyles until the condition got in the way.

TimeWasting · 09/07/2011 22:24

No, Quorn has egg in it. Soya has loads of protein in it. If she's eating nuts, pulses and tofu, and is eating enough calories each day she'd have no trouble getting enough protein.
Food combining for protein isn't difficult if a variety of grains and pulses are eaten.

My understanding is that it is calcium intake in teenage and early adulthood that affects bone mass. Increasing intake at a later stage won't affect osteoporosis.

garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 22:17

Sorry, off-topic again - TW, I found this article on bone health and a vegan diet. It doesn't mention that Vitamin D is synthesised on the skin by the reaction of cholesterol with sunlight. So not only do you need sunshine, you also need to get enough cholesterol by eating the right kind of fats.

Vegetable sources of collagen include Quorn and some seaweeds. Most plant collagens are the wrong kind for humans, though you should of course encourage collagen synthesis through combining your protein sources :)

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garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 22:07

I accept that I have little or no knowledge of vegan issues. My friend has an impaired ability to digest fats - I didn't know this beforehand. Consequently, she uses very little oil. She has lots of nuts and pulses, tofu and a very small amount of soya milk (fat-free).

Vegan food-combining is ever so difficult to pull off correctly, even if you can eat fats and gluten. It's much easier for vegetarians who eat dairy.

Not sure if vegans can eat Quorn? You should be able to, I think - it's made from a kind of lichen. It's the best non-animal protein replacement in many ways.

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TimeWasting · 09/07/2011 21:56

Animal products aren't necessary for good nutrition if you're eating a balanced vegan diet though.

And vegans would certainly disagree that animals aren't hurt in the dairy industry. I think you might help your friend more if you understood veganism better.

Is her diet restricted other ways? Does she not eat nuts or oils etc.?

garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 21:56

That's bonkers, SQ! I'd have been in that queue with you Grin
Lots of red meat recommended for CFS, hurrah - I've got an 'excuse' at last, though god knows why I should need one.

The tribes that eat blood and milk (the Masai?) are among the healthiest in the world. Inuit, who eat all fish, meat and tons of animal fat have a close to zero incidence of cancer and never get colds. That might have something to do with the cold, though.

Back to feminist eating issues: It's entirely possible that women are smaller than men due to eating less through infancy and childhood. It's never been subjected to a controlled study, afaik.

We need Susie Orbach!

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garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 21:50

That Carol Adams book sounds really interesting!

Dietary calcium isn't the only significant factor in bone health for adults. I've forgotten the details of everything I found out for my friend, but it was to do with metabolic processes that rely on animal fats. Something to do with the transportation of Vitamin A (not sure) and some other things. I tried to persuade her to eat some cream & butter at least, as no animals are hurt in the making, but she's dairy intolerant :(

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SardineQueen · 09/07/2011 21:05

Yes floyjoy the vegans I know have that diet for ethical reasons rather than anything else.

On meat. It is very interesting. I love meat, personally. Obviously red meat is bad in large regular doses but equally it is quick, easy calories for the body, all that lovely protein, and of course stacks of iron. Near my old work there was a special sandwich bar that had fresh roasted joints of meat and they would carve it for you to go into fresh bread to make the most delicious sandwiches you can imagine. It was takeaway only and the queue was often very long - and I was often the only woman in it. Which was interesting. I asked a friend what she made of it. She said that women like "things like salads - pulses and so on more". Do they? Really? Is it a genuine awareness of health issues that means that women aren't queueing for meat, because of socialisation that means that women don't feel it's appropriate to eat hunks of red meat, or because women's taste buds are different to men's and they genuinely don't like it?

I would like to think that women weren't in the queue because they were getting what they really fancied eating somewhere else, whatever it might be. But knowing just how delicious these sandwiches were, I wondered whether that was really the case.

floyjoy · 09/07/2011 19:59

Carol J Adams's The Sexual Politics of Meat is an interesting read about the history of meat consumption (as you say, saving the meat for the hard-working husband while the children and wife have barely any food) and current cultural assumptions (her stuff on meat advertising is jaw-dropping in terms of sexism).

There are sources of calcium other than dairy. Veganism is usually an ethical or health choice rather than an attempt to limit calories/fat in a negative way. I notice a trend towards labelling vegetarian or vegan diets as forms of eating disorders which maybe reflects their growth. Are men considered to be displaying signs of an eating disorder if they chose a specific diet? Most people who adopt such a diet tend to give nutrition a lot of thought, more than they did in the past usually and more than a lot of omnivores.

Osteoporoisis - I've always had the feeling that it's considered one of those 'aging' conditions and therefore not worth giving much attention to. The fact that it impacts women, ditto. More generally, from what I see conditions that often effect older women are given short shrift. I may be wrong but I'll be finding out for myself pretty soon.

alistron1 · 09/07/2011 17:45

My 89 year old grandfather has osteoporosis, I can think of one other male relative who also had it. My grandfather has always eaten well, been active etc...

garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 17:39

That is interesting, Catitainahatita! I didn't realise diet could have such a quick effect on bone mass ... congrats on what sounds like a perfect recovery :)

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garlicnutter · 09/07/2011 17:36

That's a good point about elderly women having done plenty of hard labour. Their diets have been restricted, too, especially during and after the war. Lots of veg and starch, but poor in protein and in variety.

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saggarmakersbottomknocker · 09/07/2011 16:26

Hmm - I'm not sure if exercise is actually an issue wrt to women currently in their 80s. That generation certainly did more weight bearing exercise than the modern generation, and strength too - running a household was much more physically demanding than it is today.

Perhaps their osteoporosis was more dietary related whereas for my generation (born 60s) more due to lack of (or the wrong type of) exercise?

Catitainahatita · 09/07/2011 16:19

I got osteopenia (sp) after being ill with undiagnosed diabetes for several months (more like a year). I was also malnourished for the same reason. It took me over a year after the diagnosis to regain bone mass and balance my weight.

Don't know if that is relevant. I just wanted to say that vis a vis older women with osteoporsis: yes bfing was common, but so was feeding children evaporated milk as a bf substitute. Obviously this was better than the older practise of giving them gin in the same circumstances.....but probably didn't give them the best start. Plus 80 years old will have lived through the rationing in the 2WW which will have also had an impact.