Apparently women can't be doctors...

PS I am a female cosultant and I do wear suits

Re: me looking older than the nurses, perhaps I just look older now than most people around! Re the clothing being different. In my field it is not really the case (although I as a consultant would generally probably be a bit more formally dressed than the nurses, although not always!)

That was to Beta. Trousers and blouse and flats = work attire for female doctors. If the last time you saw a female consultant she was wearing a suit, then it was a while ago. If you haven't heard about "bare below the elbows" then !

wtf?

They should bring back the white coats.

springbok - look carefully at what your male colleagues wear when they meet patients. Look carefully at what any senior female consultants wear. Look carefully at what the female nurses wear.

Think carefully about visual clues. The last female consultant I met was wearing a smart business suit. You sound like you are wearing the sort of thing a theatre nurse might wear.

I went back to work when dd was 3 months old (this was ages ago when the maternity leave allowance was 18 weeks).

I have said that if I had another child I would go back at the same time. To fits of the vapours from others

I don't work in aerospace any more, I work in particle physics research, and the lack of stupid boy behaviour is a revelation. I still miss the planes though

GetOrf and LilBB, I'm in aerospace too, it is such boys club, isn't it?

It is amazing that being a female doctor is such a problem. Not much to do but keep correcting them, hopefully the next female doctor they see will have it easier. And it gets better when you get older, I haven't been asked to get coffee or take minutes for quite a while now.

Ah yes the good old "why did you have kids in the first place if you don't want to take care of them??" comments. Whenever I hear them I point out that by the way, manager x or director y (male) has a 2 month old baby at home, have you asked him the same question?

Ps, there is nothing wrong with being briefly chatty to patients, building a warm relationship builds trust and confidence and a highly useful tool in healthcare I would suggest.

Springboksaplenty

Most of the patients you see are in a state, confused, in an unfamiliar environment, perhaps exhausted etc... they are not really thinking about you and what you are but are thinking about themselves. They may have seen so many other people that they don't know whether they are coming or going. They may not be able to see your badge. As you get older, people will stop calling you darling, babs, or whatever, embrace your youth. Introduce yourself loudly and clearly and always shake their hand if possible. My name is Dr. Springboks and I'm am ++state Grade here+++ to see you about X.....

I was shocked at the number of professionals I saw on the maternity ward who didn't bother to tell me their name or grade it was very poor.

agree HandDived.

And yes like you I have used whiny directed at a man (and never used simpering). Those words just seemed unjustified in the context in which they were used up thread.

OP "At a point I don't think that I should have to become more stereotypically male in order to satisfy my patients prejudices." Absolutely. It sounds to me that you are looking the part, being the part - people just don't want to see it. That is their problem and it is their attitudes that need changing (not that that helps you!). I am not sure what else you can do about it other than keep correcting them and bringing them up on it when they are being arses thoughtless.

"Context is everything, surely?" I agree.

I would, and do, use the word "whiny" about men and women if it's the right word. I have used it in various work-based rants at home when I was offloading to DP about whiny people. (I do hate whining and there were big whiners of each sex at my last job)

I don't think I've really ever called anyone simpering, but I reserve the right to do so if they are simpering and I feel like pointing this out

I do see what you mean though HandDived, in that those words are used more about women, and many people use them in a sexist way. I don't think that means they are inherently sexist words though, or that anyone who uses them is automatically sexist. Context is everything, surely?

dorje you sound exactly like me. Cow pretty much sums up my work persona.

opus a UAV is a unmanned plane.

I feel for you, I am a teacher who looks very young and constantly get questioned!

I have to be honest though, when i hospital with my grandad I did refer to a female doctor as a nurse, without thinking. I corrected myself though and felt terrible for the rest of the day about it. Sometimes people may just not think.

"Or does your sexism argument apply only to "negative" words." My arguments applied to the words you used about the female doctor - whiny and simpering. You wouldn't have used those words about a male doctor who was complaining (unless he was cowering in a corner crying).

This is a problem especially for young women in professional jobs. I'm not sure how to counteract it exactly, but I'm thinking hair style and shoes, glasses if worn, might make a difference. One cringes to think of treating a doctor like a Harrods saleslady (!!) but there are things people can do to project an image, hopefully without having to put on a complete fake costume. And without acting like a big bully either.

Re the stethoscope, I don't think that a "blue" one would necessarily get more respect than a pink one. If it was a serious navy blue, that should pass, but cute baby blue, forget that. The same would go for any doctor, either gender.

If your patients are children, then I can completely understand a pink stethoscope. I'd say a neutral colour is better for inspiring confidence in adults.
Completely understand the frustration though - so rant away. Bonsoir has a point though.

FWIW I work in a masculine environment and have learnt not to chat, to not try and please, to not smile all the time, to be impassive, and to wait till some junior makes a tit out of himself by burbling in meetings (used to be me coming in with high pitched nervous stuff). I do NOT do anyone elses' work. I negotiate hard.

I wear unrevealing clothes, (I have massive boobs), a jacket most days, and have paired my accessories down. Don't know if this is something to even consider.

On days when we are brainstorming and discussing design, for eg, I'll wear something a bit more wow and quirky and 'my style', but day to day, I'm quite a pared down, analytical, impassive cow really!!!

DH has a burgundy Littmann precisely for that reason, Rum. Unfortunately it also means that DD1 likes it far, far more than her toy stethoscope ...

Its an irritating misconception in reverse, the general public have an inability to discriminate between health professional in general, take comfort it wasn't a protracted "laa" from young lad who was simultaneously using the office chair to scoot across the floor of the treatment room as he was being seen. My teeth are still itching.

I wear scrubs and use a stethoscope but get addressed as a doctor, which i'm not and they get corrected fast. I think that the older you appear and certainly the more assertive and knowledgeable you seem then the more it is assumed you are a doctor, regardless of role.

Tbh in your position after a set of nights then they would all have got short shrift and not made that mistake again. The female consultants I have worked with in a very male dominated environment were very assertive and would not tolerate being talked down to by anyone, they still remained approachable though.

I can understand the allure of the coloured stethoscope though. When 70% of doctors are using the same grey Littmann's having a pink ( or blue, green etc) one will prevent someone walking away with it easily.

Rant away springbok. I used to have a 6 ft 2 male house officer and patients would automatically speak to him on my rounds.

When working at a hospital in Cape Town in the 80s I was once asked by a medical consultant if everything was ok at home as he couldn't understand why a pretty young thing would want to be working instead of at home with babies!! He thought he was showing genuine fatherly concern , at least it's not that bad any more.

LilBB abd GetOrf, my DB works in planes and took us, years ago, to a family day. I was totally in awe of those military planes, they were amazing even to someone like me who has never had any interest in cars, planes, etc.

PS. What's a UAV? Or is it one of those things that you would have to kill me if you told me? (Am sure DB is lying when he says that )

Getorf my love of planes is growing. When I first started working there I wasn't that interested, especially as Im not directly involved, but now I get really proud when I see one of ours or a bit sad when they retire them. My interest has definitely grown since we started with the UAVs. They are like something out of science fiction!! I'm feeling a bit in awe of you being an engineer.