The Myths About Women Who "Cry Rape"

Yes, that's the real problem here, isn't it? That you're having your arguments taken to pieces. Diddums.

Never mind that your comments are triggering several other posters; never mind that rape is troublingly common; never mind that posters on this thread have responded to your queries only to be mocked; never mind that this thread was started by an article in the national press that is forced to clarify, once again, that rape myths are myths.

No, the real problem here is that your words are being 'twisted'.

You are reasonable LeninGrad, as are some others I disagree with. It is not nice or fair to be called a rape apologist though.

Back to laugh at the ridiculous term 'rape culture.' And you people wonder why feminism gets a bad rep, by this section you just twist whatever anyone says until they are a rape apologist. Most of you simply cannot or choose not to debate like adults, it's how 12 year olds argue. Pitiful really.

Dammit, pressed the wrong button. Yes, that man is a potential rapist - not a socially clumsy oaf, or a victim of circumstance.

A refusal to accept this lies at the very heart of the rape culture that we live in.

Verbal consent is always necessary if a woman always wants verbal consent to be sought.

It isn't always necessary, if she doesn't find it necessary.

Not difficult.

Yes, I believe that a man who is not prepared to establish that his partner consents to whatever it is that they are doing, is a potential rapist.

"You realise you're talking to a brick wall? Your on here sprouting rape apologetics, and putting across some damaging points of view. At least one woman has felt you've said something that's put her at the blame for her rape, and tbf, this is fucking with my head enough that I'm going to have to leave feminism for a bit, to avoid seeing your misogynist fucking clap trap and feel any more triggered than I already do. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who feels like this."

Its rape apologetics to ask if verbal consent is always necessary? Was always my only question. You are being tricked by those who have put words into my mouth, not by anything I've actually said. This place is ridiculous, goodbye for now.

MS of course it would be better to say no.

But if a woman doesn't say no, the consequence for her may be that she is raped.

If a man doesn't establish consent, the consequence for him may be that he is a rapist.

It seems pretty obvious to me, who has the greater responsibility to establish consent. Particularly in a society where women are taught right from when they are children, that their needs and desires are secondary to those of everyone around them and are not taught how to assertively state what they want (you can deny it if you want but it's true and I can't be bothered to respond to a post along the lines of "no that's not what happens")

MarySue, I think verbal consent is necessary every time, and so have all my partners. Why on earth would you not establish verbal consent? Why on earth would you not seek that level of encouragement? Why, for that matter, would you have sex in frozen silence? I don't believe for one moment that anyone who is not a rapist thinks these things are normal or everyday.

"Then the onus is on that man to get better at it, or ask outright."

Yes it is. I've said that. I was asking if that means he is also a rapist who wouldn't take no for answer. That was clear, can you read?

"It is ridiculous that you are prepared to excuse rape on the basis that a man might be socially inadequate or not very sexually confident, or to assume that women should be the only ones to have a voice in such a situation."

I never said that. so bored with typing those words. I'm a rape excuser now, sure. lalalala.

"I would start with rebalancing the whole thing so it's not always or solely women's responsibility."

Have made my position clear that it is not solely or always the woman's responsibility.

Men just aren't that rubbish at reading non verbal signals. They know when a woman is scared and not actively participating. And if a particular man is bad at reading the signals, he needs to seek proper verbal consent.

For no other crime would people excuse a criminal because he was rubbish at reading the signs. "Sorry your honour, I'm just really bad at knowing how much I've had to drink so it didn't really occur to me not to get into the car and drive." Rightly, it wouldn't wash.

I realise I am talking to a brick wall, but all I was ever asking was who thinks verbal consent is necessary every time? The quotes I requoted seemed to suggest that. That's what I was debating, and yes some people have actually clarified what they think. But it really is unbelievable this is difficult to comprehend for some others, or that I need to keep saying 'yes consent needs to be established' again and again and again.

Then the onus is on that man to get better at it, or ask outright. It is ridiculous that you are prepared to excuse rape on the basis that a man might be socially inadequate or not very sexually confident, or to assume that women should be the only ones to have a voice in such a situation.

Consent comes from both sides. Speaking personally, if the person I'm in bed with isn't sending out PLENTY of verbal and physical signals that they are having fun and want to continue, I stop. It is inexcusable for anyone to act in any other way.

^ @HerBeX

No you just made it clearer. If you are not kissing him back and are still and quiet, I've said if he proceeds he has not got consent so it is rape. But while I am not saying someone couldn't be frozen with fear in that situation, you don't know for sure that a 'no, please stop' won't work, surely its better that you do say 'no', if possible? You do seem to be assuming a man is a rapist who won't take no for an answer when he might just be stupid, or rubbish at detecting (obvious) non-verbal information.

Also I still want you to answer the question about whether if a woman doesn't say no, she can't possibly have been raped, without the caveat about unconsciousness, drunkness etc.