The Myths About Women Who "Cry Rape"

"I don't know why lie detectors are so forbidden. They are not perfect"

I think you answered your own question there.

"There is often lots of corroborating evidence if the Police look for it. They need to start the investigation believing the victim of a crime. If they find no evidence they should treat the victim with compassion and respect. If they can't find enough evidence they should reassure the victim that they were right to report the crime and that the info may help to catch the perpetrator later."

Can't argue with that. Certainly it seems rape victims were treated shockingly in the past, and I've heard that it's got a lot better. Though I'm sure it's far from perfect.

And I agree that many cases, more could be done to gather evidence. The police and the courts manage to screw up all kinds of important prosecutions to be fair.

But what has that got to do with the fact that so many cases do come down to the defendant claiming it was consensual? And there being little evidence to prove him a liar, as often there won't be? And juries just having to accept reasonable doubt has been established?

(incidentally, I don't know why lie detectors are so forbidden. They are not perfect, but if the jury knows that, I think the results could help a lot of cases.)

As for this metaphor, I've been thinking about what AnyFucker posted earlier about honing metaphors on the web to win arguments in real life. The RL argument that is apparently needed is to convince more people that rape claimants are very unlikely to be lying, and that circumstances don't excuse a rape, yes? I'm just warning that if you used this metaphor to persuade anyone, be aware that you may be giving them the rejoinder 'but people do make false claims of burglary! People do blame the victim if they are reckless with their safety!' And then what?

Marysue the his word v her word scenario is another rape myth!

There is often lots of corroborating evidence if the Police look for it. They need to start the investigation believing the victim of a crime. If they find no evidence they should treat the victim with compassion and respect. If they can't find enough evidence they should reassure the victim that they were right to report the crime and that the info may help to catch the perpetrator later.

Look at the IPC report into the John Warboys case.

Look at the evidence that was there if it was searched out. From memory: testimony of friends of victim, CCTV, cross referencing re other reports if a black cab driver raping, various "props" he had which he used to drug victims.

There is also evidence in a rape committed by someone known to the victim. Medical, friends, victim testimony, tracing previous partners ( applicable in DV cases).

Marysue, about 90% of reports to the police are not prosecuted.

yep-i agree with you TheAtomic.
actually-[some]men often take advantage of women with mh labels.
i myself have seen male members of staff taking advantage of women[in a psyc hospital]
at this time i also had a male member of staff stick hes tongue in my mouth and hes hand down my top.
when i tried to tell someone i was told"dont be silly sparky"!
i was then frightened i wouldnt get out of there and shut up.
i was frightened of being accussed of being more mad cos after all-the staff dont do these things do they!!!
this was a long time ago and i hope it still doesnt happen[i wont put money on it though]

Herbex, if there was no other evidence there would be no prosection. If the money was in my account, but I claimed it was a loan it would be my word against hers. And this is where my stupid metaphor breaks down, as the police would probably suspect it was stolen at that point, and there are other differences between stealing/lending money and having sex/being raped. As someone who is disputing a dodgy metaphor in another thread I will withdraw my one here and go off and have a cup of tea.

But the police would look for evidence MarySue. They would check your bank account, her bank account, details of whether she's suddenly made a massive purchase of a cadillac recently... they wouldn't just tell you that it's really hard to prove, so you're best off going away and having a cup of tea and forgetting about the whole thing.

I just weanted to another difficulty of proving rape in the case mentally ill vistims (which is considered as serious a crime in America as raping a 12-17 year old). Use one of the most common for targetting by men - bipolar during full mania. Several reasons why this is not easily proven:

1. Although the man (normally a friend) is perfectly aware that she is not in her right state of mind during the episode, she will have gone along with it.
2. As mania ofton mixes with serious psychotic symptons, the victim will sometimes not be sure if it really did happen or if it was a halucination.
3. Provacative behaviour during mania tends to bring out the "she-was-sking-for-it crowd mentioned above
4. After the victim returns to normal, the memories often fade, meaning that it is very hard to recall any details of what happened.
5. The victim will blame themselves and actually take the blame for it (due to depression setting in afterwards), and this means it is unlikely to be reported.
6. How do you prove that the male knew she was not in her right state of mind (Duh, because she was banging her head against a brick wall screaming for the voices to shut up, that's how!).

I seem to have been replying to an earlier post.

If I said Tortoiseonthehalfshell stole £100/ £100000000 pounds from me, and there is no evidence other than my claim, Tortoiseonthehalfshell will not be prosecuted.

TheAtomicBum[11.06 post]
[as for mental health issues-they may not of been lies............................
.................................................................................................]

excellent point TheAtomic.
ill add that-the fact that someone has a mental health label could lead them not being believed anyway!

Joaninha, I agree. It is dorogatory to men as well as women. It's just saying, it was her fault for whatever it is she did and so should dress in full coverings and never drink or go anywhere alone, and the man was just an animal that couldn't help himself. He couldn't possibly control his penis. It's an obsene arguement for both.

"We'd be living in a dark place if we were all scared of all men, y'know?"

Thank you. I refuse to live in a world where I'm scared of men.

Which is why feminists have far more respect for men than the "she asked for it" brigade. They are the ones that have such a low opinion of manhood.

I know of one case which was written of as a false allegation. IMO, it was actually rape, thought (in this case). A 15yo had sex with a 22yo. She went home and somehow her parents were alerted to the fact. They asked if she had said yes. She responded by saying that she didn't say yes, but she didn't say no. He took her to the bedroom and she didn't do anything to stop it. The parents called the police and made the accusation. A few days later, the girl retracted her allegation.

Personally, I think due to the age difference that it was wrong and he should have been charged. Her actions show why it is too young. She was too young to emotionally decide for herself whether she wanted to or not, and so he took advantage.

dammit I double clicked, sorry

MarySue I can see that those reasons would be the ones people would think of when it comes to false claims, but as mentioned before the hugely invasive process of investigating a rape would put most people off. I would think (maybe naive) that most people would stop before they even got to the police station in those cases.

MarySue I can see that those reasons would be the ones people would think of when it comes to false claims, but as mentioned before the hugely invasive process of investigating a rape would put most people off. I would think (maybe naive) that most people would stop before they even got to the police station in those cases.

"I'm not passing judgement, or denying that it exists, of course not, but I would genuinely like to know what people think might be the psychological motive for "crying rape"?"

I was just talking about this. Possibly these reasons (for these extremely rare cases, as I believe them to be, please don't put any words in my mouth or call me a rape apologist, and refer to my previous comment that I believe 99% of rape claims are genuine, which is far fewer than the 'official' figure. Ok?)

1. For some financial reward. I would guess this is extremely uncommon, but I suppose if the DSK is a false claim (not saying it is) this is the reason?

1. Malice. Perhaps there was consensual sex, but the person regretted it, or came to hate the person, she might 'cry rape' to make his life miserable.

1. Pretending it wasn't consensual so you don't get in trouble. This is what I GUESS happens most often - someone cheats on a partner, or does it with someone they shouldn't,and rather than admit it was consensual, says they were raped. Then one thing leads to another and the person is arrested, etc. This is the case where I can sympathise a little, and also understand that after a while the accuser will drop the case and or admit it was consensual when their conscience wins out.

I agree. I've been blind mashed with various blokes and women with nothing happening. I think it's just that Rapists think it is OK to do when the woman is drunk, but that is a far cry from alchohol making men into rapists.

Try research on rapists by Dr David Lisak. Observant readers will spot that he is a man. Thus his evidence will be credible. Sadly, he still thinks rapists are usually not convicted. Even though he is a man.

Motives that the press likes to mention: revenge; woman scorned; etc. Note they are mentioned in cases that have still not gone to trial, like Julian Assange.

Out in the real world: women who have in all likelihood actually been raped but have been cowed into retracting their allegations through further threats and are then prosecuted.