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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
IWouldNotCouldNotWithAGoat · 06/07/2011 20:47

This thread has shown me yet again that is is worth checking into the Feminism section regularly. You don't get that many gems but when you do it's a fucking beauty.

Smear tests exist so that male gynecologists can get their jollies performing the presumably highly sexual act of inserting metal instruments in the vaginas of middle aged women.

They must REALLY get off on it to commit to all those years of medical training.

Mouseface · 06/07/2011 20:41

I want my DD to have the injection. And yes, I know what I want is irrelevant.

And re abusive smears - The gynea in The Hand That Rocks The Craddle springs to mind. Sad

DilysPrice · 06/07/2011 20:21

Well I've struggled through all 17 pages and feel I deserve a medal.

The things that I wish to add relate to the equivalent male cancers.
Testicular cancer affects relatively young men, but the reason why it is not the focus of such full-on screening and research is that it is really pretty rare, and when it does occur is the most treatable and survivable of cancers (albeit at a cost of course). A man in the UK is more likely to die of breast cancer than testicular cancer. (roughly 100 male deaths p.a. of BC vs 70 p.a. of TC).

Prostate cancer does kill many thousands of men each year, and screening does take place for older men, but it is controversial because many prostate cancers are extremely slow growing - classically more men die "with" PC than "of" it. Because of that, if you screen a load of men in their 70s you will save some lives, but you will also give expensive and invasive treatment to a lot of men who would never have been harmed by the cancer itself. That is a fact about the pathology of the disease, which differs significantly AFAIK from cervical cancer.
It also raises feminist issues because the side effects of treatment -incontinence and loss of sexual function-are taken extremely seriously when the risk/reward calculations on screening are made, in stark contrast to many women's experience of obstetric treatment, but that's a bit of a lurch off topic (hell, one more won't matter).

And I lost all patience with Sakura rather late in this thread, when she spouted total bollocks about the murder statistics and then made no apology when comprehensively refuted.

SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 20:01

Back again!

Well it definitely happened Confused

I was 16, I had a smear at Brook (Tottenham court road IIRC - hully maybe I saw you there!!!) and it was dodgy and they referred me to a hosp in Euston for the "colp".

Went along and had the procedure as described earlier and identified by SaF.

Not sure what all this "didn't you know he was the best gynae, how could you not know what the procedure was" etc etc. I was 16 and had a lot of faith in medical professionals (still do to a large extent) and I turned up and did as i was told and didn't ask any questions. I mean I was only 16! Now I would ask questions, but then I didn't.

SchrodingersMew · 06/07/2011 20:00

Hully I completely understand where you are coming from, I have also got a bit Blush when it has come to male doctors too. Even with much less invasive examinations.

As for men grappling with vaginas, in most cases it really is just a job. I worked as a body piercer which could sometimes involve handling male and female genitals, I really did view it as just a job and wasn't even really thinking of the fact I was working on or near someone else's genitals. However I will say, I got more embarrased with women than I did with men. Perhaps this could be the case with some male gynae?

Hullygully · 06/07/2011 19:56

And it's embarrassing. When I was young and having other hospital experiences that involved other less intimate areas of the body, it was embarrassing to be examined by a young and attractive male. Perhaps it shouldn't have been, but it was.

Hullygully · 06/07/2011 19:55

Yes, I think you have a fair point with reagrds to extrapolation from one's own experience, but why do men want to grapple about with vaginas all day?

SchrodingersMew · 06/07/2011 19:54

Oh, I just realised that I may have come across as thinking all lesbians would want to get it on with every woman they come across. Blush

Sorry, I'm a bit tired and that is not what I meant, it was actually the opposite.

SchrodingersMew · 06/07/2011 19:52

Thanks Hully.

But that's the same with men too. Fair enough, yes there are some bastards who take advantage of their position but there are also others who are just doing their job.

I think in your case you are perfectly reasonable to insist on a female as you have had a horrid experience but it could also have been a woman that done it, in which case you might be demanding to see a man. IYSWIM?

Hullygully · 06/07/2011 19:50

I like your name, but that is a bit of an odd suggestion...

Not all gay men/women want to get it on with everyone of the same sex you know.

SchrodingersMew · 06/07/2011 19:49

True Hully, that could quite easily have been a woman acting unprofessionally.

It's not only men that are capable of malpractice.

I wonder if the people who are against men working as gynae's are against lesbians too? Would it be okay if the man was gay?

Hullygully · 06/07/2011 19:43

But then that's sexist, isn't it? It's all a horrible nightmare.

SchrodingersMew · 06/07/2011 19:43

Shock I live in Glasgow, very near Maryhill...

Hullygully · 06/07/2011 19:42

When I was about 16 I went down the Brook to get the pill, and had a male doctor who firstly asked me to "drop my panties" PANTIES? vom, and then after the internal/smear/can't remember, asked me to remove my top so he could examine my breasts, which involved putting his hands on them and rubbing them in circles...

Since then I have only ever had female doctors for any procedure. If a practice doesn't have females, I move. In a hospital, I demand one. The only time I had males involved was surgery - elective caesarians, but there were plenty of women present.

I have to say that I do think there is something odd about a man who wants to spend his professional life with vaginas.

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:41

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rainbowtoenails · 06/07/2011 19:39

If anyone wonders why some women dont trust men to perform smears read this and this about a GP who was sentenced to several years in jail after abusing women he did smears on.

Women complained about him for years and yet were dismissed. If smears wre compulsory there would be more cases like this. CC is treatable, the abuse these women suffered may be something they will NEVER recover from.

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:29

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swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:28

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swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:27

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rainbowtoenails · 06/07/2011 19:27

I've not read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything.

I'm obviously going to be in the minority but I agree with Sakura.

Smear tests are something women can do themselves with DIY kits but the medical profession makes too much money from them, and they have such a powerful lobby with the government that policy wont change, even though it would save womens' lives and be cheaper, freeing up NHS cash to save yet more lives.

In the vast majority of cases CC is a STI, preventable by condom use. But we cant possibly expect men to wear condoms can we?

CC is not nearly as common as people think it is. An average woman has only a 1 in 132 chance of getting it over her lifetime and if she doesn't increase her risk by not smoking and having few sexual partners then the risk is much lower.

Smoking, stress, obesity, lack of exercise and alcohol are ENORMOUSLY bigger threats to womens' health that not attending smears.

CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 19:15

Just read that you weren't even given proper answers to your questions. Surely you knew that he wasn't the best gynecologist available?

I asked the same questions and was told that it would not affect my ability to carry to term any future children.

CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 19:13

Either you are not remembering it correctly, or your "doctor" doesn't properly deserve that title, and in that case I would wonder why you went back to him for another treatment.

If someone did a colposcopy, biopsy, and LEEP to you in the same visit, you should sue him for malpractice. He should not have removed a chunk of your cervix without being sure that it was a severe case of dysplasia, and that he could only know after seeing the results of the biopsy.

Desiderata · 06/07/2011 19:07

I haven't had a smear for over thirty years.

I'd rather like to be surprised by my manner of death ..

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:05

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swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 19:04

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