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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
Catslikehats · 06/07/2011 09:27

Wow Shock

Every so often a post on Mn will really make the mind boggle. Not because it is total bullshit, there are plenty of posters full of that, but because it is posted by someone who up until the point that they posted such extreme misandry, you has assumed they were actually fairly sane.

At that point you feel totally misled and incapable of rational judgement yourself

Bandwithering · 06/07/2011 09:27

@trillianastra, yeah if i'm honest, a compulsory smear test would suit my procrastinating personality. Instead of a letter in the post telling me I'm overdue for one, I'd really benefit more from a letter telling me "your apt is on the x of aug". OK, I'd groan when I got the letter but by x+1 of august i'd have had the damn smear.

OK, i'm going to dig out that letter, later.

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 09:19

That's a good point about t being a Catholic country- making them compulsory could be a way of saying "this is not adultery, it is not sexual, it does not make you dirty, it is medicine and it is to keep you safe".

startail · 06/07/2011 09:16

I dislike compulsion too! But Poland is a Catholic country. I can imagine having smear tests becoming the norm being very useful to some women in overcoming their own, their partners or their families objections.

I gave up on smear tests for a while because I was always recalled because they had blood in them. (cervical erosion from the mini pill the nurse thinks).
Anyway they now have a new system that works regardless. Do I care if this was discovered by a man or a woman? Of course I don't, I'm just glad to be able to get results from a test that might save my life!

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 09:16

Thank you MamaChocoholic. I wanted to question the rubbish about chromosomes (men more likely to have chromosomal abnormalities? no) but thought it was just a ranty sideline rather than the main point.

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 09:13

Seriously? You sound completely unhinged. What utter misandrist crap.

MollysChamber · 06/07/2011 09:13

I'd rather have a smear any day than have a prostate check.

upahill · 06/07/2011 09:08

Well OP think what you bloody well want but let me just say that I am so thankful that I went for my smear in February and I am undergoing treatment that I didn't know I needed. I had forgotten to make my appointments and had a bit of a stern reminder.

I am very grateful that I did.

Sure I am slightly traumaised but only at my own studpidty for not make an appointment sooner!

MamaChocoholic · 06/07/2011 09:06

enough others have commented on your views on smears. but as a geneticist I wanted to respond to this:

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.

you need to read up on X inactivation, which means that any given cell has only one working copy of the X chromosome. so male cells have just as many X chromosome gene products as female. although I agree the Y chromosome is a runt of a thing Grin and does appear to drive men to die younger on average.

ShirleyKnot · 06/07/2011 09:06

What the?

winnybella · 06/07/2011 09:06

It'll be the employers paying for the tests, not government, Cattleprod.

IWouldNotCouldNotWithAGoat · 06/07/2011 09:05

"the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments"

I am not being facetious when I say that you should consider professional counselling.

MollysChamber · 06/07/2011 09:02

Oh, what utter sexist bullshit to say that men should not work in gynae.

If you have a preference to being treated by a women then make that clear. Just as a man can make clear that he would be prefer to be seen by a man.

winnybella · 06/07/2011 09:02

Posted before finishing. So, yes, desperate measure are called for in the light of this.

Now how will the national health fund cope with treating all these women, I'm not sure Hmm

Cattleprod · 06/07/2011 09:01

It's not so much about trusting men, it's the simple biological fact that men's genitals are on the outside, so easily accessible for self-checking (not that all men do this). Were women able to self-check their cervixes etc., I'm sure the medical institutions wouldn't waste their money on unnecessary examinations.

You don't mention prostrate testing, which is something my dad and his peers regularly have done - presumably this is some sinister attempt to 'control' older men? Hmm

And why does it matter what type of genitals the medical practitioner has? Surely it's their hands and their brain that make them good at their job.

You realise if it was the other way round you would be complaining, rightly so, that millions of pounds of resources were being ploughed into keeping men safe and healthy while women were being ignored and dying earlier.

winnybella · 06/07/2011 08:59

Oh, and I have just read that cervical cancer rates in Poland are the highest of all of the EU.

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 08:59

I'm sorry that your first smear experience was not a pleasant one, but the letter telling you to go for a smear should have clearly stated that you should not have sex the night before and you should book for mid-cycle to get the best results.

If you don't understand what the results mean, or don't understand how to prepare properly, you should speak to the doctor/nurse, not just assume that the whole system is flawed.

InTheNightKitchen · 06/07/2011 08:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MollysChamber · 06/07/2011 08:57

The vaccine that has been introduced for the virus that can lead to cervical cancer will eventually lead to smears being a thing of the past surely?

Anyway, no smears should not be compulsory however they should certainly be encouraged. I have one regularly. It's fine.

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 08:56

There is an interesting discussion to be had on whether medical screening that is for your own good should be made compulsory, but it clearly can't be had here.

PirateDinosaur · 06/07/2011 08:54

Wow, those people who introduced smear tests specifically to subordinate women must be really pissed off that they led to such a big reduction in deaths from cervical cancer. It must have taken the shine right off the subordinating.

(I do agree that making them compulsory is wrong, though)

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 08:53

Ignorant sexist rant.

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

winnybella · 06/07/2011 08:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

winnybella · 06/07/2011 08:50

Oh, and in the US it's the 8th most common cancer for women and in the UK the 12th.

But of course it has nothing to do with lots of women in these countries having regular smears Hmm

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