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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 14:03

Health insurance they normally take a medical history and ask about your state of health.

They don't normally send you for tests unless there is good reason. I have not seen a UK health insurance form that "checked" that people were having smears, checking their breasts etc. Although I haven't seen that many. They normally concentrate on family history and what has actually happened to you IYSWIM.

winnybella · 06/07/2011 14:03

Btw I took issue with you saying smears are useless/a way to rape women etc, not with you not agreeing with the compulsory tests.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:02

claig it is worth reading The WHole Woman. She has a large chapter on the medicalization of childbirth and the misogyny of the medical fraternity. She specifically states that (in her belief) control of women is behind the obsession with mammograms and cervical smear tests.

ANd it is very strange that men are not required to go for tests. Do men get sent letters in the post "reminding" them they're due for a testicular cancer test?
Men are prone to cancers that women are not. Let's call them male-specific cancers. I would really like to know why men are not "strongly advised" to get regular check ups "for their own good" in order to prevent such cancers.

Men invented and designed the system. It's men calling the shots, it's men who decide what goes, and how much funding goes into research etc.

Greer concludes that men are trusted (and allowed) to weigh up the risks and take responsibility for their own health, whereas women are not. Women are expected to stay "under the doctor" for life. She also condemns the culture of fearthe constant worries about smear test results that women are forced to live under. Men escape it all. WHy?

OP posts:
DrNortherner · 06/07/2011 14:02

OP you sound utterly barking imo.

Men don't kow about healthy eating?! WTF?!!

Men have no business being in gynaecology?

Is it silly season on here?

winnybella · 06/07/2011 14:01

Nah, if you read my post from few minutes ago you would see that I said that I can see why the government wants to tackle it, as only 7% of women have regular smear tests and only 20% have mammograms they are invited to have after certain age (I think it's 50).

I agree that forcing women to have them might not be the right way to go about this, but I can see the frustration when you have so many women coming to see the doctors with very advanced cancers that are incurable, while if they had a smear test, it could have been dealt with easily and by extension, would have saved lots of public money.

But, no, even though my first reaction was: oh, it's not a big deal, I think it's against patient's right to refuse a procedure.

Tbh I doubt the government will succeed.

NormanTebbit · 06/07/2011 13:59

But what about health insurance health checks? Suely in the states people are required to have checks in order to have health insurance (although many poor people do not have insuarnce and therefore don't get to be oppressed by the patriarchy, but get to die of cancer instead)

sakura · 06/07/2011 13:56

Winny, can I just quote you at Wed 06-Jul-11 08:59:53

"Oh, and I have just read that cervical cancer rates in Poland are the highest of all of the EU."

I take it you mean this somehow justifies the Polish government's proposed barbarism heavy-handedness?

OP posts:
winnybella · 06/07/2011 13:55

1 in 8 women will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Stage 1 BC is curable in something like 98 or 99%.

But hey, mammograms were designed to opress women Hmm

sakura · 06/07/2011 13:55

Butlinsbabe,
Left-wing men supported women's access to the pill and abortion so they could fuck women with wanton abandon, and women no longer had a reason to say no.
Abortion (though it definitely has its place) was also a cynical way for men not to have to face the consequences of what they did to women. Research from the seventies showed that it was married women who were more likely to go for illegal abortions, not young teenagers. THis was because they're husbands were fucking them without giving two hoots about the consequences.

The pill stopped women from having to go through unwanted pregnancies, but it also increased their risk of thrombosis, blood clots and various cancers. There is a simple birth control method without the pill or abortion...

OP posts:
Sidge · 06/07/2011 13:53

boysrock "The only 2 questions that should be asked are is the event over 72 hrs previous and are you pregnant. "

No that's not all that should be asked at all. You need to ask about cycle duration, whereabouts in your cycle you are, when the episode of SI took place, have there been any other episodes of unprotected sex in this cycle, what contraception is normally used, whether you are on any other medication.

I have never bought EC over the counter in Boots but if that's all they ask it's wrong wrong wrong.

No wonder there are so many apparent EC failures if that's all the counter staff are asking Hmm

claig · 06/07/2011 13:52

'Laura have you ever considered the theory of the medicalisation of womens lives? Greer does cover it as do a few others.'

I think that is a very good subject. I am interested to know what Greer says about the reason for it. I don't believe it is what Sakura is saying. Does anyone know what Greer says on it?

winnybella · 06/07/2011 13:52

boysrock- but men are expected to go and check out their prostate as well, but most of them don't bother.

SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 13:51

How about thinking about it from a man's POV. We have enough MRAs on here complaining that women hold all the cards when it comes to babies - they can lie about contraception, conceive, unilaterally decide whether to abort or not, have a baby and not tell the father, have a baby and make them liable for a lifetime of payments.

Surely men with this complaint would welcome the opportunity to control their own fertility?

Butlinsbabe · 06/07/2011 13:49

Would anyone want men to take a pill, though?

I always believed that the joy and liberation of the pill was precisely because it was taken by a woman to control her own fertility as opposed to condoms which were used by men and were unreliable.

SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 13:49

pgtips

"How terrible to make a simple and quick medical check compulsory, what's the worse that can happen, they save a life!"

Think about it for a minute. Say you are a rape victim, or a victim of child abuse, say you have had a terrible birth experience, things like that. Which mean that some women feel unable to have smears, understandably. Under the law which was proposed in Poland (which may or may not still be on the cards) these women will either have to have a smear, or be barred from working.

What's the worst that can happen? Use your imagination.

boysrock · 06/07/2011 13:49

Laura have you ever considered the theory of the medicalisation of womens lives? Greer does cover it as do a few others. In essence this is what sakura is saying. It is far from barkig when you read up on it.

Have you ever noticed how it is womens reproductive health that is focused on from cancer to contraception? listening to the media you would think we died of nothing else. But we do.

Have you noticed how many routine check up appoontments we go to compared to put mal relatives despite being fit and well.

Have you noticed how when a screening programme is scaled back because it does not need to be so intense ( i think pap smear but could be wrong) there was media concern.

There are plenty morr examples. Why is it acceptable to regulate teenage girls mpod swings with a pill? Why isnt it acceptable to do this for boys?

NormanTebbit · 06/07/2011 13:47
Grin

I find it best to steer clear of the dentist at all costs what with their patronising provision of a chair in the waiting room because obviously the patriarchy wishes to keep me waiting as my time is not precious.

Pah!

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 13:45

Thank goodness no-one said 'hysterical'

winnybella · 06/07/2011 13:45

Having googled Polish medical websites, it seems only 7% of women have regular smear tests. Only 20% have mammograms they are invited to have (for free).

Poland has the highest mortality rate from cervical cancer in EU.

I can understand that the government wants to tackle this. Perhaps compulasory tests are not a way to go, but I very much doubt it's a patriachal conspiration to keep women in check/rape them/humiliate them etc.

BerylOfLaughs · 06/07/2011 13:43

Thanks for this thread. It's made me realise that the patriarchy are just trying to orally rape me with their oppressive instruments whenever I go to the dentist, therefore I won't be going any more. Phew, close call. I'd rather have cavities any day!

winnybella · 06/07/2011 13:41

floyjoy

Again, most posters took issue with Sakura's claim that smear tests are useless. Not with her being appalled at the proposed legislation.

NormanTebbit · 06/07/2011 13:40

I also find threads like this very Hmm I consider myself fortunate to live in a country which provides health screening and to have a (female) GP who wrote me a letter telling me off for missing a smear (I then had one.)

OK making it compulsory may be dicey - although alot of screening and health checks are compulsory if you want medical insurance - but tryng to suggest it is some kind of patriarchal conspiracy sounds rather childish, petulant even.

LauraPoppins · 06/07/2011 13:39

You may think that 'barking' is offensive (tbh yes, it is) but it the easiest and most succinct way of expressing my opinion about the original post.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 06/07/2011 13:38

Can I also add to floyjoy's remark (in a more measured way this time) that questioning someone's mental health - calling them mad, deranged, cuckoo - is very patriarchal. For centuries women have been subjugated using mental health reasons. As this is the feminist section please can we find other ways to describe our displeasure at someone's comments (like address those comments directly and explain why you don't like them).

boysrock · 06/07/2011 13:38

Sorry walk in centre not wic ~ got carried away with the phone there.

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