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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

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TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 14:29

Murder and domestic violence have nothing to do with smears or medical ethics.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:28

Annie sorry you'll have to read the thread to find the answers to your questions. I only work here.

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Butlinsbabe · 06/07/2011 14:28

Sakura, I didn't offer statistics nor did I mention women murdering men Hmm.

I said, " Some women are murdered by some men, most women are not and die peacefully. Some men are murdered by some men, most aren't and die peacefully but younger than most women."

Tell me what is, " wrong" with that statement, please.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:28

Grimma, I'll repost because I don't think you got it.

XY is viable, but in Turner's syndrome there is only one chromozome.

Let me break it down for you:

Mother-- X
Father --X = Girl

Mother--X
Father--Y=Boy

Mother---
Father---X =Child with TUrner's

Mother---
Father--Y Child will die

The Y that makes a boy is much much weaker than the double X that makes a girl

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CoteDAzur · 06/07/2011 14:27

" 'but - cervical smears save lives!' I would reply that this might be true (or not), but it doesn't really change the fact that they are (also) controlling"

HOW exactly are you controlled by smear tests? Does dr or nurse implant a remote control device in your cervix at the time of the smear? Or do you feel powerless when your legs are in the air and allowing a thing inanimate object to reach within and touch your cervix?

Your "might be true" to "smear tests save lives" shows a shocking ignorance. Some of us here have had life saving surgery thanks to early detection through these smear tests.

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 14:27

Sorry, but how is the X chromosome any more relevant than, say, chromosome 3? Everyone has one working copy.

Now the Y chromosome is a different story, because only men have them. But so what, really? How is this relevant to Poland looking into infringing women's rights?

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 14:27

Bollocks.

In 2009/10 , 421 victims were male and 198 were female.

I know how XY works. You said If the second chromozome is a Y, the baby will not survive. It must be an X because X chromozomes have so many more genes needef for life to function.. The second one. After the first X. Everyone needs an X. Having another X is not better than having a Y as the second chromosome. There is no reason to think this other than going backwards from "I think men are worse".

Butlinsbabe · 06/07/2011 14:26

Sakura.

Most women will not die at the hands of their spouse but most women will outlive their spouse.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:26

Butlins your statistics are wrong.

Women hardly ever murder men, and when they do it is in self-defence.

Men murder women at a frequency of two a week. In the UK alone.

Men murder other men, but less frequently than they murder women

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EssentialFattyAcid · 06/07/2011 14:26

Compulsory smears are wrong and deeply disturbing to me. UK doctors don't seemto think smears are voluntary either ime. My GP is constantly trying to pressurise me for a smear by witholding other treatment eg I was only allowed to take the contraceptive pill if I agreed to regular smears.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 14:25

Yes.... every human needs an X, its not 'female'. One of my pair of Xs came from my dad.

Butlinsbabe · 06/07/2011 14:24

Do you not look at your body, Sakura? Do you not look for new or changing moles, breast changes or lumps?

If I could check my own cervix, I would. I can't so I get a professional to do it.

Some women are murdered by some men, most women are not and die peacefully. Some men are murdered by some men, most aren't and die peacefully but younger than most women.
As a feminist and a human being I am horrified by DV as much as everyone but that is not this topic .

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:24

Trillian,
It's not completely untrue.
WOmen are murdered at a far greater frequency than men.

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ItsNotUnusual · 06/07/2011 14:24

Butlinsbabe - I'll attempt to answer though I do not condiser myself to be a Radical Feminist (though for the record I admire and respect the views of those that are, and their attempts to get their voces heard).

Feminism is concerned with women's rights and the inequalities culturally and the way societies are set up. It's not ok for men to be unhealthy etc but as a starting point, when i am concerned with feminism it's about women and I believe that improvements in women's lives will absolutely benefit any and all decent men.

I have men in my life. I love them dearly and they love me. I wouldn't be without them. Of course they have a role in the patriarchy - they grew up and function within it, as do I. I can see why the patriarchy needs to be smashed. that's not the same as smashing all the decent men out there - I see it as the systems and procedures need to be changed and maybe there are individuals that need to be held to account but mostly the patriarchyis more than the sum of it's parts (ie the individual men). Do they oppress me? the systems and culture - yes. The individuals - sometimes but it doesn't pass without comment.

LauraPoppins - I'm glad handdivedscallops corrected you. You really did misunderstand me. sigh - that's the problem when I am not as direct and forthright as some.

I see manhating in your comments about how your husband cannot be relied upon to take responsibility for contraception and that your teenage daughter's male peers can only think with their pants.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:23

that second one was

Mother---X
Father---Y = Boy

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sakura · 06/07/2011 14:23

Trillian,
XY is viable, but in Turner's syndrome there is only one chromozome.

Let me break it down for you:

Mother-- X
Father --X = Girl

Mother--X
Father--X =Boy

Mother---
Father---X =Child with TUrner's

Mother---
Father--Y Child will die

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TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 14:23

Men are not being killed to the same extent.
When men are killed, it's by other men.

Men are being killed to a much greater extent. Not by women, I'll grant you that, but you are claiming that men get murdered less which is completely untrue.

Reality · 06/07/2011 14:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:21

Wrong Trillian,
Two women are murdered violently every week in the UK, by their spouse alone. Men are not being killed to the same extent.
When men are killed, it's by other men.

It's relevant because someone upthread talked about feminists being up in arms if it was women who died earlier. I explained that they do. They are frequently murdered. Ask that person why they veered off topic.

Grimma, the X is absent in the mother, but if the father supplies another X the baby can survive. If he supplies a Y, it cannot.

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TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 14:21

I said: A foetus can live with just one X, but to be fully-functional and fertile (sorry anyone with Turner syndrome) you need either a second X or a Y.

Sakura said: If the second chromozome is a Y, the baby will not survive. It must be an X because X chromozomes have so many more genes needef for life to function.

I think this proves that Sakura should not speak on the matter of chromosomes any more.

If XY were non viable there wouldn't be any men.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 14:21

Yes - every human needs an X. Yes, its 'life giving'. No its not 'female'.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:19

No, Trillian.
If the second chromozome is a Y, the baby will not survive. It must be an X because X chromozomes have so many more genes needef for life to function.

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TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 14:18

Men usually die peacefully. WOmen are frequently murdered, by men, in the most heinous of ways.

I imagine more men die violent deaths than women. And what's that got to do with smear tests or medical ethics?

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 14:18

An X chromosome is essential to any human being. Its not the 'female chromosome'.

sakura · 06/07/2011 14:18

Oh dear GOd, Nooo. She's going on about men murdering women again. Puhlease. Not in the feminist topic.. Whatta man-hater.

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