being a sah is not considered a legitimate pursuit anymore...

Harriet Do you have a partner ? if so what is their role ?

I think part of the problem is that we seem to be pigeonholed into making either/or choices, as if one has to be a better choice than the other. The reality is that as a society we need all these roles and they are all valuable and completely interdependent.

We live in a capitalist society. Money is what makes the world go round. So we need a significant number of people working, but full employment is not actually a desirable thing at all. If every single person were in paid employment, our society would collapse. PTAs, Board of Governors, Meals on Wheels, even the life boat service - there are a massive number of roles essential to our infrastructure that rely on an unpaid army of volunteers, often made up by those not in paid employment.

Someone has to bring up the children in this society in which 80% (I think) of people choose to have children. IF a mother doesn't want to do it and wants to work, she SHOULD be able to. No way should be more limited than the other parent purely because she is female. If she chooses to work in paid employment then she has to pay a professional (or if she's extremely lucky maybe she has family who can help out). But if she doesn't want to work in paid employment, given that someone has to look after her child, it seems bonkers to deny her the opportunity to that over some misguided notion that all women should be in paid employment. All people are not in paid employment and surely a loving willing mother is an ideal person to care for her own child. The only problem I see with the role of SAHM is when a woman is forced into that role because she wants to work but cannot find employment, make it fit round her family life, or afford the childcare, and when her partner (sod what anyone else thinks) doesn't support the choice and devalues it.

There is room in our society for all these roles and we need them all to continue.

Even people who "are lazy"/ get less done than other people may have their/our reasons for it.
It's so easy to criticize others which is usually something we do in order to justify ourselves or feel good about ourselves.
There are usually reasons why things are as they are in people's lives, even if we - or even they themselves - don't know what those are.
Live and let live seems a good approach !

my DH would like to be a SAHP - I am not sure if he realises it's more than just looking after a kid. However, it's not a competition is it? I am sure being a lone parent is harder than being a SAHP but presumably every situaton is different and some 'lone parents' have help or partners or helpful exes, just as some sahp have supportive other halves/parents/cleaners etc.

Some people are lazy, some sahp are lazy, some working parents have a really tough time.

I didnt think anyone is giving anyone a hard time.

SAHP do a very important job - that needs to be respected. 99% of the time it makes the working parents job much easier to do.

I would love a SAHW . Anyone interested?

I thought the early part of this thread was quite refreshing and inspiring, including the OP.

I was a SAHP until my youngest started school, and have since worked P/T with children in playgroups and school as TA. Next year my hours are being drastically reduced, but beginning to think that might help me get more on top of things at home (badly needed) - Worried about the finances though. Could try working as supply teacher, but slightly wary of increased responsibility, on top of looking after my own kids. It's not easy for many of us to get the juggling right, so, as women, we shouldn't give one another a hard time over the choices we each make. Feels like there's quite a lot of pressure to "go back to work"/ work outside the home/ get a proper job !

Good to see modern feminism embracing these aspects more, I feel that's a really positive change for all women.

In the last 13 years I have been a sahp for approximately 4 years and in part time or full time work for the other 9.
When my dds were babies I think it was better for all of them that I was with them and I actively wanted that first year or so with them. For my family and my future it is better for all of us now that I work.
From the same 13 years if I had only worked when not having a child under school age I would only have worked for 2 years. As I had my children young - 21 when dd1 was born - I think that would have permanently crippled my independance, earning power and career path. I have made what I think are quite good choices and I've seen life on both sides of the fence. I absolutely disagree that working mothers get more respect than sahms. For a start - I don't need to attack the sahm position to justify my own - how does what a sahm does affect my choice? However the sahm position seems always to attack the basic building blocks of the wohm position, which is that somebody else CAN look after your children adequately whilst you are doing something else. The sahm choice is justified on the basis that they are doing a 'better' thing. It has to be. Otherwise it would be a purely self seeking choice wouldn't it - and we aren't very good at owning up to those. Same goes for working outside the home. How many women ave you heard describing their work only in terms of tehir personal fulfillment? We always bring money in to it as well and usually it's the first thing we mention.
Furthermore I've done both and I know perfectly well what is more mentally and physically demanding. I also know what both positions cost. I sometimes think that when people say sahms need more respect they mean that sahms should enjoy some of the advantages that working parents achieve - higher income? higher sense of self worth? better pension? more senior and fulfilling career position viewed over a life time? Well tough - everything comes with a cost. You do not get to have a totally advantageous position, it doesn't exist.
Being a parent is a rewarding but tiring experience. Motherhood has changed who I am. I have made my choices accordingly but I don't expect anybody else to live with them or celebrate them except for me. Of course I don't expect people to think they are doing better than me either.

When I was last on maternity leave I had a clean house, children were at school on time wearing their own uniforms (not each others), tea was on the table at tea time, food was in the cupboards, ironing was done and I had time to play with my baby, organise a festival and have an hour or so to myself in the evenings. I was essentially a SAHM.

I now work full time in a job 40 mins from home. We are always late for school, tea isn't ready till 7.30/8pm, children don't get to bed till well gone 9, then I start the ironing, cleaning, making next day's lunches and all the other stuff that I used to be able to during the day. I never, ever get time to sit down and watch TV. I only come on Mumsnet as a quick skive when I'm supposed to be answering emails.

I know which I'd rather be given the financial choice. Feminism hasn't liberated me from my household shackles, rather it's given society the expectation that women can (and should) have it all. We're damned if we work and damned if we don't, and woe betide us if we're not domestic goddesses whichever choice we make. Bugger the lot of it - I'm off to de-weed my garden.

I said that, peppa.

I didnt actually get a real choice about which i did due to sn and disability. It grates sometimes.

That was reply to fluffles

garlicnutter 'I used to wonder "what SAHPs do all day" until I started standing in for my friend while she and her H went away. They had 3 DC aged 10-16 when I first did it. I was gobsmacked. Lunch prep, kit checks, breakfasts, school run with the youngest, shop, housework, a couple of hours to myself, school run, tea, homework, cook, supper, activity transport x 3, friends & emotional issues, bedtimes, laundry.'

But a Working parent does all that too

I assumed the op was talking about tje view in some feminist circles that having children is somehow giving in to the aptriarchy, and not going to paid work is disrespecting women who fought for the right to work.
Like staying at home is unfeminist and letting the side down.

Maybe they are struggling ? or due to financial pressure they cant make the choices they want to ?

I don't know about this one.

On the one hand I don't think people give SAHM's enough respect. They do an important job and enable the working partner to do better at their job by taking the pressures off. Not all SAHM enjoy being at home and it is hard work.

However I find my days at home with two children under three and one in school much easier than my days when I have to get them all out of the house by 7.00 am, cram work into my day, rush to pick them up, sort them out, bed etc then do more work.

I don't understand why you say a SAHM works 17 hour days but a WOHM works only 8 - 10? Surely she works 8 - 10 in her paid job then reverts to the same roles as a SAHM?

However, saying that, I would go a bit insane staying at home full time. I enjoy my job and do not enjoy the monotony of the tasks of caring for young children. Part of this is also social stimulation and company. I have no family near by to help and all my good friends work. Yes I could make new ones but you dont just make life long friends over night. And the ones I do make then go back to work.

Both groups should be respected and their positions recognised as making a difference. However I dont htink you can decide which is harder for any individual. Depends on a lot of things.

I used to wonder "what SAHPs do all day" until I started standing in for my friend while she and her H went away. They had 3 DC aged 10-16 when I first did it. I was gobsmacked. Lunch prep, kit checks, breakfasts, school run with the youngest, shop, housework, a couple of hours to myself, school run, tea, homework, cook, supper, activity transport x 3, friends & emotional issues, bedtimes, laundry. All in all I got around 5 hours of 'me' time which was roughly the same as when I worked in a very high-pressure job. Also, little of the SAHP work was as much fun or as social as my job - though I guess that part feels different when they're your own kids.

Since the first time I did it, I never wondered what they do all day
The knowledge that many women do all that AND a job fills me with awe.

OP you worry too much what other people say and think.
I am a working mother ( 4 days a week) and would have a much more relaxed and enjoyable time as a SAHM. But then I get a lot from working that SAHMs often don't have - financial independence etc. There are too many variables in life to make generalisations about what is "best" imo. We all do the best we can at the time with our own circumstances.

I don't disrespect SAHMs and think it is foolish for women to spend time disrespecting each others choices in life.

SarahLundsred... i agree, but why do people do the 'you have it easy' or 'you just don't know what it's like' or 'you should try my life' and other such comments of compeitive misery??

fluffles different things make people feel exhausted and miserable .

I love my job ,look forward to going in and its not just about earning money.
I am lucky enough to have my degree funded and time to study paid for.

I believe that working gives me the balance I need and I would feel miserable and exhausted being at home fulltime. We are all different

i've never understood why it is considered virtuous to be as miserable, exhausted and working as hard as you possibly can?

and why is it considered 'lazy' to be anything less than against the wall, is it lazy to be enjoying your life and to be acheiving a balance you consider best for your life, family and happiness.

i GENUINELY don't understand.

i would never judge anybody for working less hours and taking life at a pace that makes them and their family happy.

my life is far from perfect, there are some things about it i cannot control, but other things are choices i have made and am hapy with.. if anybody thinks i have an easy life i am happy for them to join me. the more the merrier.

Ali,youre v much opining and making assumptions about working mums.asking them answer your question "just please admit that this is the reason..."

this isnt the therapist couch Ali no one needs to admit anything

and the person with the big chip on the shoulder is you.clearly this causes you self esteem issues.hence you feel aggrieved

If you are happy with your choice and feel it is the right thing for your family then thats great. But why justify your choice? Ignore them and enjoy your life.

My exMIL was highly critical when I went back to work when DS was one. I couldn't have given a toss and she ended up having a conversation with herself as I wouldnt engage with that kind of nonsense.

The only person you should be discussing this with is your DH. Tell everyone else to butt out.

I am a sahm to school age children, what i find is I can do the things I have always wanted to do, I help out in school 2 days a week, I help with my elderly gran, I am not stressed when the teachers go on strike, the sacrifice for this is money, everybody makes there choice, I have never said a word to a working mum, but several have had a go at me about how much easier it is, well if it is competative misery you want you can win (not at anyone here, at the people who have had a go at me).

Replying to OP -I think the answer is to stop justifying your choices to others .