being a sah is not considered a legitimate pursuit anymore...

Not bitching on this thread perhaps - didn't read all of it. But there are many threads of competition SAHM vs WOHM and they all miss the point I feel. I'm glad your husband takes the stance he does but it is rare. And women do themselves no favours getting tied up competing with each other when the elephant in the room is the massive injustice that women in society still experience. Currently reading this book and gasping in horror and recognition much of the time.

www.amazon.co.uk/Wifework-Susan-Maushart/dp/0747561729

When I was at work I had many signs of respect for my role. My salary for one but also a title, business lunches, staff who sought my advice, instructions or approval etc etc etc. I was regularly rewarded or praised for deadlines met, problems resolved and clients impressed.
At hone I get none of that. My role is often only mentioned if something goes wrong. It has a kind of negative status.
Fortunately for me I don't want or desire praise or recognition and I have status.
But the op makes a valid point.
To be a sahp does mean that you get no status.
I just think sah shouldn't care.
That is not the same as suggesting it isn't true

why do you classify women discussions as "bitching" most demeaning
oh not the myth of the sisterhood.all us sistas getting along
aye thats going to happen
and speak for yourself about partners, we have equitable split

I dont think anyone has been bitching ??
My DP has done 50/50 on childcare and housework. I mentioned this on another thread and also bought up the subject of flexible working- excuses abounded as to why their DP would never consider it
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have written btw

What I just cannot understand and drives me mental is why we send so much time bitching about each other and the choices we make between SAHM and WOHM when we should be asking why our husbands and partners aren't doing more to make the situation more manageable. WOHM is harder because 90% women still retain responsibility for all the household shit. So for some women who can financially afford it - SHAM seems the only sensible and sane option. But they too are making sacrifices and compromises.

But don't fight with each other - fight the battle with your husbands and partners who just bimble along with the household somehow being managed around them while you either feel undermined for not working or exhausted and guilty about the compromises that come with being a working woman.

It's not fair. But we wont change it by turning on each other.

Ah OK Ilovedora I see what you mean.

wider society doesnt need to respect op.she needs to respect herself
how would that manifest itself? sahm day?wear vileda ribbon show support?
op needs to stop looking for external approbation ,she wont get it

It doesnt seem like the Op is talking about her partner but about wider society to me Sarah

Thats what I am getting at SM. I dont fully understand what SAHMs mean when they say they dont get respect/status as the vast majority of people dont whether working or not. Not many jobs gain respect or status irl ime.

Ilovedora maybe the OP isnt respected by her partner and that is at the heart of her OP- or maybe taken for granted.
I think perhaps respect is somewhat invisible whereas disrespect is obvious ifyswim

im a good mum,good employee.im happy,it works for the family thats what matters. and naturally i dont care what anyone else makes of it-why should i?

I am seen as a good mum obviously by my daughter and husband. I am also seen as a good wife by my husband but I dont think anyone else would give 2 hoots what I did. I work with children and they all like me and get on with me but I dont really feel anyone would care either way. I have never met anyone that even really enquires much about whether you work in a job or not. Its something that just isnt really talked about much in my circles/area.

I am talking about the Op doesnt feel respected and I dont really get that concept as I dont know anyone that would care either way.I dont know hardly anyone man or woman, that has status really, it doesnt make me sad its just irrelevant to my life.

I agree ilovedora Im not sure what you mean about respect though. I personally feel that I am respected by my parents,friends ,DH as a good mother and also as a nurse by my colleagues and patients.
Noone is jumping up and down shouting it but my DD and what I have achieved in my career are the visible side of it .
I feel that everything I have done has been my choice and my decision and I dont expect anyone to have to validate my choices for me.
It makes me a bit sad that you feel you have neither respect nor status.

I also think it depends on the person. SAHM doesnt have to be isolating if you get out and meet all your friends. Working and having a child can also be relentless as you have to get up go to work, work, come home, everythings got to be done etc. IMO once you have children your life will be relentless tbh I think it doesnt matter what you do and unless you are in a minute group of people no one is going to respect you, and I wouldnt ever expect anyone to respect me or what I do.

I get satisfaction from both being at home and being at work. At times both drive me up the wall but I dont think anyone respects me for working, or anyone else for that matter. Again it seems to be more important to people who move in more affluent circles. I dont understand the respect or status thing but I suppose I have never known what it is like to have either.

I also dont think that when people refer to a SAHM having a harder job they are referring to the hours worked -It is often harder because it is relentless,isolating and repetetive. I would find it much harder if I SAH and would probably be very depressed -conversely another woman would find working harder if they had an unfulfilling job.

ilovedora it is probably a reaction to being made to feel like nothing by certain people (I'd imagine mainly men who think that Women At Home are nothing but a function and that no office paperwork and management-speak means no brains...)

I am considering becoming an SAHP myself right now as I find trying to combine work, a 2 hour commute and single parenting when I have custody of my boys completely impossible. I just want to do ONE difficult thing in my life thanks v much and I had to decide what was most important, and it was them.

OP I say sod those who don't give you respect. You respect yourself and that is enough! You know how hard it is and kudos to you for sticking with it.

I dont expect medal for working outside of the home but to say "you work to pay the bills " is simplistic.
Yes I do have bills to pay but I get immense satisfaction from my job and like many Nurses I dont just go home on the dot.
The feminist stance on the "choice" has often puzzled me -"the choice" is only there if a partner is willing to support the other person in staying home.

I dont think it matters what people do really. Agree with SM that is is ridiculous when SAHMs so being at home is always harder than working and being a mum at the same time or it is a role that deserves a salary. I only think it should have a salary as such if it is with SN children as carers allowance is inqdequate.

Then again I think it is something of a middle class obsession on here with working outside of the home getting you 'respect'. I have never had anyone respect me for working and never ever heard anyone talk about this in RL. You just work to pay the bills, and if you are in a lower paid job you just get on with it and dont expect a medal for it, or status or to be respected. Seems weird to me.

it isnt a who has it hardest competition.
dont seek approbation from others.it wont be forthcoming.so no point worrying about it. you need to make your own peace and find your own workable soution.and yes people will opine on either option of the sahm or working chosen

i imagine the feminist ideological stance on sahm is supporting individuals choice to stay home or work. it only gets risiible when someone pipes up that housewifery is a job and demands a salary.in which case i will have double income from employment and being mum

I dont think SAHMs or WOHMS have it easier as a whole group. Some SAHMS will have a very laid back time whereas some will have loads of children/SN etc.

I know me being a working mum is a significantly harder and more tiring than if I was at home. I do have to look after my child the whole time though and work in a paid role at the same time though so I would have to say that there isnt much that is harder than that. You wouldnt believe how stressful it is until you try it!

Hi red jumper - It's great to have a DD though isn't it - and I know I for one am already secretly looking forward to grandchildren one day !

One thing I would add is if I had my time again I would def use childcare.It was a real struggle -especially as I did nightwork .In theory it was great but the reality of having to stay up until DD napped or went to nursery was awful.
That is not going to happen though as a hysterectomy means no more DC for me

Dont shoot yourself kalo !
I see what you mean about worrying whether your child was well looked after.I also take your point that I didnt have that worry -fair enough.

I dont pay much attention to celebs though - cant imagine having the pressure to look good and the press attention and speculation about every aspect of your parenting.

i think basically we are agreeing (also banging my head against a wall).

all i'm saying is that sleb mums say they know what its like being a working mum, but yes, they know what its like working - big deal- but the worst bit about being a working mum is worrying if your child is being well looked after, not the bloody working bit. I also do a job that benefits others, is good money, is probably the same bloody job as yours. I wouldn't do it unless i was happy with my child care arrangement. If that were the case I would be broke though and that would cause other probs, thats where me and victoria beckham and gwyneth paltrow differ though!! other than that I'm sure we would all have plenty in common.

I won't be replying any further cos I'm going to shoot myself!! bemused