being a sah is not considered a legitimate pursuit anymore...

I have found that when people learn I'm not going back to work they seem quite envious rather than judgemental. I was on track for quite an high-flying career - my boss wanted me to do a professional doctorate and I was all set to get working on that when I finally stopped and thought "no, this isn't what I want, I want children and a home and that's it." When I said it to my colleagues the general response was that it was lovely and wasn't it great that I knew what I wanted. In fact my boss, who was an ultra-busy, ultra successful person, expressed guilt and dissatisfaction with her life as she had two young children whom she rarely saw. People did say they couldn't be a SAHM but I just took their word for it - that they didn't feel cut out for it, not that they thought it was stupid or pointless.

However I was still locked into the "I must have a career" mindset so I retrained as a teacher, which is a very family friendly job in Ireland. I hated the training but I do love teaching, however, now that I've moved to England and have had my DS I don't think I'll ever go back to teaching as it is definitely not family friendly in this country. Anytime I've said to people here that I'm not going back to work I've had the "Oh I couldn't do that" response, or "Oh it's great to have that opportunity" both of which I feel are not judgemental of me in any way, they're just comments. I don't need anyone else to legitimise what I'm doing, it's my life and what they think of it means nothing to me.

I have mentioned it before on the feminism topic but it seems relevant here so I'll mention it again. I read a very interesting book by Susan Pinker called "The Sexual Paradox" which looks into the disparities between men and women in the workplace. Basically she investigated why, despite all the initiatives to get women into science, engineering, and top business management women still go for the more social jobs or opt to stay at home, and what she found was that women just don't want the careers that these initiatives promote, simple as that. Even women who are given every possible opportunity and encounter no sexism in their workplace are far far more likely than their male counterparts to stay at a lower management level or leave the career altogether. Why? Not because of childcare, or the glass ceiling but because they just don't want it. You can't make someone want to be a scientist or a physicist and making women feel guilty because they're not "successful" (ie not in a traditionally "male" job) does women no favours. Women choose more social jobs like teaching, medicine, social work, because they want those jobs. Far better to increase the prestige of these jobs rather than foisting other less desirable jobs on women. However, as we have seen, when teachers try to get more recognition by demanding fair pay and striking for it, they're seen as selfish and greedy. How dare women demand to be paid for their skills!

Sorry one bit I forgot to add -during the war women were told it was selfish to SAH-they should "do their bit for the war" and they were also discouraged from visiting their evacuated children
It seems that historically women have been manipulated to suit the needs of society at that time

Ilovedora unless you work in emergency ,theatres or critical care there isnt a huge amount of blood -certainly not the gushing fountains that are seen on Casualty or Holby

Hopeforthebest very interesting post -agree especially a bit the bit regarding men doing more ie their share of childcare/housework.

I personally havent come across the attitude that being a mother /enjoying your DC is wrong- to the contrary I think that the Patriarchy have sugar coated motherhood(for a reason!)! and that some women feel like they have been "had" when they find themselves doing all the childcare,all the chores-while looking at their husbands who have barely changed their lifestyles.
There was a SAHM support thread on here recently-post after post from women who felt disillusioned.
I loved being (mostly) at home when my DC were little -most days anyway.There was one occasion when we had used every last sheet,towel and pillowcase and still DD was erupting from both ends -that day I wanted to be beamed up!

The bit about equality being measured in terms of the extent women are like men- women have always traditionally WOH - babies would be taken to the fields or looked after by an extended network of older experienced women or their siblings.Of course if you came from the upper classes children were cared for by staff .
Post war brought about the "SAHM" -deliberately engineered propaganda to ensure that there were enough jobs for men returning from war.
My grandmother had 2 jobs -she was a warwidow-DM was cared for by various older relatives.
Sorry have gone on a bit ! I just wanted to address the notion that women working = emulating men !
I still think that everyone should do whatever makes them happy and ignore remarks about the choices they have made. Only you live your life

I am very, very squeamish sarah. Its weird as my mum has been a nurse her whole working life. I cant even take my DD for injections or have a blood test without feeling faint. Dont think I would make it as a nurse!

Im not keen on blood either ilovedora

I agree with Sarah people say about it about all types of thinsg doesnt mean anything. I couldnt be a nurse as I hate the sight of blood, wouldnt want to be a chef cause its too hot in the kitchen etc. I work in a nursery practically every parent says oh couldnt do what you do drives me nuts etc. Its just conversation half the time.

It is an interesting thread. I'm wondering are you aware that single mothers (those on benefits!) are now treated as unemployed from when their child starts school. It is a major shift in the way the government treats those with childcare responsibilites and, I feel, a major letdown for women's rights in this country. Proof perhaps that motherhood is not a recognised role in this country anymore.

Also Ali, you use the analogy of what people have said to you as being the equivelent of you saying to a working mother "I wouldn't want to leave my child with a stranger" (paraphrased - sorry) It is just as rude. But people do say that. As a working mother I've had many SAHPs say that to me.

There are rude people and there are not rude people. Offensive comments about life choices aren't only recieved by SAHPs. Maybe you wouldn't be so rude as to make a comment like that, but people do, the same as people make them to you. Challenge each incident, or just shrug it off.

I'm sorry you don't feel like you have any status. Personally, despite being 30 and having a succesful career, I don't really feel like I have status when I go to the playground. I would have more than you at a business networking event, less at a PTA meeting... I don't think that looking for acceptance and status from strangers is a good starting point for finding fulfillment.

AliGrylls ignoring the non-reasoned responses because frankly, I'm bored of them, the most worrying thing to me whilst reading your OP is not whether or not SAHP is a valuable pursuit or not, but more the way that people who choose this path are being treated.

17 hour days? knee deep in nappies? Being made to keep children awake in to the night so that dad can see them? This is not a feminist choice!!! It's not about which one is harder, it's about who is being treated with respect. If you genuinley feel that you're getting the raw end of the deal (and i would suggest this is because you are a woman... would your partner be as happy to do it?!) you need to readdress the balance.

I don't like to think of any woman (or person!) to feel that they are in such ann unfair and unequal situation.

I also don't think that your experience is the norm. I know several SAHMs and and working mums, no one feels as hard done by as you seem to.

I think that you are reading too much Ali into what others are saying.Personally if someone is saying Iwouldnt find it stimulating they are referring to themselves.They arent adding and "therefore you are an idiot on the end "

I wouldnt find it as stimulating -
now but I did enjoy being mostly SAH with my small DC( Excellent mat leave,returned very partime)

To ask you about cooking your DH dinner is very odd - I would ignore !

To put it another way -I am a nurse - someone else wants to be a pastry chef or a doctor -they wouldnt find being a nurse as stimulating -why would i be offended by that ????
I also like Indigo am very happy -if you are happy then just let their comments go.

To add, how is calling other women's lifestyles " lame" part of feminist thought and action?

Gay40.

Lame? well, if that's what you think, s'up to you. [shrugs]

I do local community stuff, spend time with my getting on a bit parents, help out at a school and deal with the animals and my land/house. I also help out my working friends with childcare when they are stuck.

I have never been happier. I love my life, absolutely love it. The thought of giving it all up to work 9-5 for money we don't need and wouldn't spend scares the living daylights out of me ( though possibky not quite as much as it would scare DH!!)

If YOU are happy working, I am pleased. The only lame thing on this thread is judging other women for making different choices from you.

Of course, there's always the argument that it perpetuates the stereotype to the next generation that mum stays at home and does everything and dad goes out to work.
Once kids go to school, I think it's a bit lame tbh.

NormanTebbit - not really but thanks for the insight

Kitsilano - I agree.

I don't give a fuck about this argument anymore. Most parents are just trying to do their best. That's it really.

HTH

Thanks HandDiveds and take the point re the word bitching. It's not just responsibility for the children though. In the vast majority of cases, (not all I know - thank you to those who point out their husbands are not like this) women are responsible for childcare, cooking, housework, admin, maintenance, cleaning - even if it's the outsourcing of those tasks it's still their job at the end of the day. And this is what makes life such an exhausting compromise for so many women. Drives me demented - and even more so when I see women on here criticisng (not on this thread maybe, but it does happen) each others choices when the fact is we all need to fight a massive battle to change the way women are treated by society.

I dont do anything for my DP in terms of making his existence more comfortable and mine less . I really find it astonishing that some wives feel the need to run around their DP like they are gods.
We look after each other equally -If he is tired I will cook and viceversa. He is kind and thoughtful and I try to be too.

also of course working men make compromises as much as women as they might not get to see their children as much either.

Kitsilano the biching comment aside, I think you are right to point out that a lot of the difficulties motheres in general have, is the level of responsiblity they have for their children in comparison to their partners or the fathers of their children (in the case of single mothers). Many many complaints on MN are as a result of a lack of support for a variety of reasons for women and them having to do their share and then some.

Personally I dont think Wohm is harder because my husband doesnt do much its just harder as my job outside the home is harder than my one at home. Nothing to do with my husband. It all depends on what job you do and everyones circumstances will be different.

I just dont think most jobs have status unless you have a rare job that is really amazing no one cares if you are working in shop/waiter/carer/binman/warehouse person/hairdresser etc. None of those types of jobs will get you any respect or status along with 100s of other examples.

Scottishmumy - point taken on use of word "bitching"