Some thoughts on the Milly Dowler case and others.

Actually, not necessarily. Judges have been known to make idiotic and vile pronouncements about victims of sexual assault having asked for it, for example.

Ern, given that her father was not being charged with anything, how was his private life relevant to the case? Even if the police did look at the father initially (as so many murders are committed by family members) - the father was not in the dock and there was no suggestion that he had anything to do with Levi Bellfield, so I think it was not relevant and the judge was wrong to allow it to be discussed. Judges are human, you know. They sometimes fuck up.

I agree with you about not leaving porn where DC can find it, but I think the stuff was not left in plain sight and the girl was snooping, as teens often do. All very unfortunate but not relevant in court.

GAG: I know. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'vile perverted porn' the poor man had was nothing more than a couple of copies of Skin Two and a pair of Ann Summers handcuffs TBH. But if you are caught up in any kind of newsworthy event and you have even the tiniest departure from heteromonogamy in your sex life, then all of a sudden that's the story...

Link to thread to report examples of the irresponsible reporting of VAWG in the media

orangefrog so sorry to hear about your friend . I am so glad that the views expressed in this part of MN are a source of comfort. Thanks for letting us know. That for me personally is encouragement to keep on with consciousness raising and activism.

Can I encourage readers of this thread to have a look in the activism section where I started a thread about the media's reporting if VAW. I am hoping to collate evidence to submit to a review (I have lost track of when the review is though).

Will link in a minute.

SMallwhitecat: The fact that a couple are into BDSM (that's consensual sex involving costumes and a bit of spanking) does not mean they are murderers or sickos who should be publicly humiliated when they are already grieving over their dead daughter.

no one asking for blind faith in legal system,but the overall principles are sound.the quality and accuracy does vary and flaws undoubtedly.but overall do support our legal system

BUT the judge could and should have intervened,and directed the qc

sorry to hear about your friend
that's a shocking set of circumstances for you and family

Hi, I'm a regular poster on the feminist section, but have name changed for this. I was a good friend of one of the victims in a recent murder case who was defamed by the media, as were her family.

Her death has upset me very much, and I can't even imagine what her family has gone through. I have been both distressed and angered by the way the media has dealt with it and by the fact that had the criminal justice system properly dealt with her murderer's previous crimes against women, he would have been in prison and my friend would still be alive, as would some of his other victims. I also feel that the way the media deals with disappearances by focusing on highly sensationalised (and sometimes entirely untruthful) portrayals of the victim is unhelpful as turns the public's attention away from noticing things and coming forward with information.

I'd like to say thanks to all the people on the feminist section who talk about and care about women victims of crime and the way society treats them, even after their death. This section has kept me sane and helped me deal with my feelings about this.

I'm pretty sure he had her in the witness box for two days as well.The law has been changed to prevent this now though.

The whole legal system is set up to be very adversarial, which just ends up very damaging for survivors but it would be very hard to change this as the defence has to be able to bring up other facts to try to create reasonable doubt as to their guilt.

I can't remember the names but there was an absolutely dreadful rape trial a few years ago, where the rapist (I can refer to him as the rapist as he was convicted of the rape) insisted on conducting his own defence and cross-examining the victim. While wearing the clothes he had worn (or at least identical clothes) the day he raped her. I do seem to remember that the law was changed to prevent this ever happening again: the rapist knew there was enough evidence for him to be convicted so he decided to torture his victim all over again.

How can you change it though? what would you change it too? can you think of a system that would work better and be fair for both prosecution and defence. I think these questions are important whilst you may not be totally happy with how things are the problem is coming up something that can realistically replace it.

Something needs to change. I can remember Mark Dixie's trial for killing Sally Anne Bowman and the judge in his summing up said he was in no doubt Dixie enjoyed having the details of his crime relived in court and got gratification from using his ridiculous defence claim of having come across her body and violated it.

Why is a woman's underwear relevant? The poor girl I wrote about was a virgin. Why is a woman's previous sex life relevant? A prostitute can be raped.

btw, it's a separate issue, but don't you hate the way if someone is a prostitute she isn't even described as a woman any more? That guy in Ipswich killed five women, but they were always just referred to as prostitutes, as if that was all they were. All of them were daughters, several were mothers, one was actually pregnant at the time of the murder.

Yes, you can't assume someone is guilty or compromise their right to a good defence, but there is no doubt that there is misogyny shot through the system.

the judge has ability to direct and intervene with qc.he should have done so
the system is combative to the qc used a particularly combative and unpleasant style. but i dont think it was because bellfield is male.think it was a style of attack

Can't some cases go on in closed court rooms? Why does every detail of cases like this have to put in the press? I don't understand why we need to know all the ins and outs. Sometimes i would rather not know.

I also think there needs to be more equality to the way the accused and victims are treated. Like has already been said why should they keep quiet whilst victims family are made to feel like they are on trial? Can the defense basically do what they want? Is the point to put the blame on someone else rather than prove their innocence?

But how do you protect the privacy and dignity of the female victims without compromising the right of every accused person to a defence. A system that is some way assumes guilt is no system at all.