My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

complimentary that's interesting, in that it's the parents making the choice to cover their daughter's heads rather than it being expected by a mosque.

When I lived in the Middle east as a child we weren't expected to cover our hair until puberty and that applied to the Arabic girls too, but it appears to be an individual decision rather than a blanket 'policy'.

Sidge. I have seen children of 5 covering their heads. I spoke to a muslim woman about this and she said many families make the very young children wear headscrarves so that when they reach puberty they are used to wearing it and don't make a fuss. It is normally the mosque that that asks them to wear the head covered. )which is conveyed to the children via the school.
My son has visited a mosque also and the girls of 9 wear asked to cover their heads and many parents did not want to go along with it, but did to keep the peace. The visit to the mosque is normally optional.

KriKri, but this isn't an issue over Muslim women choosing to wear the hijab; it is about a group of female children being told by a school that they have to wear a head scarf. The reasonable solution if the OP doesn't want her daughter to have to wear one is to not go on the trip. She could then make alternative arrangements for her daughter to visit a mosque.

From my understanding, mosques vary in their traditions (head scarf or no, for example,) just as Christian churches and synagogues vary. The church I attended as a child frowned on women and girls in trousers. Others didn't mind. In some men's and women's classes were separate, in others together, (and none of this stopped me being a feminist!) So, I don't think you'll find a "rule" for all of Islam regarding head covering any more than you'll find a rule that applies to every Christian congregation, or even every atheist, agnostic or humanist for that matter.

In common with others, I have Muslim friends and colleagues who are feminists but chose to wear hijab. They do not see it as a symbol of oppression or conflicting with feminism any more than many women who wear nail varnish or heels feel disqualified from being a feminist.

I think there's alot of truth in this cartoon. spookysage.tumblr.com/post/5812696209/image-scanned-from-a-newspaper-a-lightly

I wonder if sometimes people are frightened of what they don't know or understand so jump to portray it as something bad. That fear can be easily passed onto kids. It can be a short few steps between fear, intolerance and hatred. I would hope that parents who are genuinely committed to social equality would wish to avoid that outcome. Exposing even young children to difference won't contaminate them. They'll make up their own minds in the end.

(First post here, so hope I haven't poked my nose in too far.)

Ive been in sikh and hindu temples and temples in various parts of the world and always respected the local customs and requirements.

It's not "just" a headscarf, or it wouldn't matter if you "just" didn't wear it. It means something. That's the something you choose to respect and the something that I wouldn't.

Indigo don't be inflammatory, foot binding and FGM are illegal, we're just talking about a headscarf.

You don't have to respect the institution of the veil broadly but isn't that different from being respectful in a holy place? I think it's just manners -- nothing is forcing you to go into a mosque but if you choose to do so, you should be respectful (both men and women have to remove shoes for example).

Agreed. I wouldn't show any respect for any customs that require a woman to walk three paces behind a man, get her feet bound or have her clit cut off.

Plenty did and do, however.

I don't think it's necessary to show respect for customs and traditions which do not value social or sexual equality. It's not as if she's going to force her way into a mosque without a headscarf is it? It's different from, say, both sexes being asked to cover legs and shoulders in a Hindu temple.

it may cause more questions from your daughter if she does not go on the trip - and you are not giving HER the option to make her own decision

i believe that you should show respect for other peoples beliefs and traditions
whatever you may think yourself

Yes, it's respectful to follow customs: but if you don't respect the custom?

I wouldn't respect this custom of inequality so I kinda feel the way you do. But no idea why you wouldn't discuss it with her - definitely possible to do so without seeming prejudiced or hysterical.

I agree that the school may have made assumptions. Some of the girls at my DDs school where headscarves as yound as 6, but that is their families not the mosque insisting they do as they feel the younger they start the easier it will be when they get older. I personally don't wear a headscarf, but my sisters do as they feel its something that is important to them.

Headcoverage not needed for pre pubescent girls. The school is overthinking this.

Bohemian, it may be a nuanced discussion for a nine-year-old but it's not for a headteacher. Why choose a mosque that demands cover-up, why not go for a more moderate one?

OP should speak directly to the mosque and see if they are demanding it or whether it is the school's (mis?)interpretation.

I have never been in a mosque where women were ordered ro cover their heads. Dds class did a trip a couple of months ago and it wasnt mentio ed. P,us all girls and boys were downstairs together.
Heck, i take dd with me to various London mosques when i need to pray, she is 19 and dresses however she wants and not a peep has been mafe. She co es in, takes off her shoes and stelles down with a book in the prayer area.
I think id question if the school have asked this without checki with the mosque because its not required, especially for pre puberty girls.

For those of you who feel uneasy about this -- would it make a difference if the headscarf were a cultural, not religious practice?

The Quran does not instruct women to wear headscarves, as I understand it says only to dress modestly. Different Muslim cultures around the world interpret this differently.

If the headscarf were a strictly religious practice, then I would expect to see Muslims doing so in Africa, Bosnia, Central Asia, Indonesia -- but you don't (as a rule).

SOME Muslims wear the headscarf, some don't.

I would wear a headscarf as a sign of respect if the mosque asked, and I think it's good to teach children about respect for different cultures at a young age. That's not the same thing as teaching your kid that the repression of women is okay, but I appreciate that's a pretty nuanced discussion for a nine-year-old.

Incidentally, my son is unlikely to go this year on the trip.
Partly to do with being an atheist family that has no respect for ANY superstition and partly to do with the fact that I don't want him to see his female class mates having to show deference or subserviance because they haven't got a dick.

I'm interested in the age at which girls cover their hair. In ds1's pre-school class there are two girls who wear headscarves every day and they are 3 or 4.

I see girls as young as 4 and 5 wearing headscarves where I live. The little girl next door has to wear one to the mosque, since about age 5. I have seen others around wearing scarves at even younger ages. And I don't think it says anything about that in the Koran, about any woman of any age being covered up like that.

I told my DD that if we went to Iran she'd have to wear a headscarf and she said she didn't want to go. It's not that realistic that we would go there, but I have friends there, and met some of them recently when they were visiting London. The woman was wearing trousers and said that you just have to have a bandana or even a hat, it doesn't have to cover all your hair or something.

You can say why you don't agree with things, but like some of the others, I don't think 9 is too young to talk about different faiths and cultures. I don't think the conversation needs to be about sexuality, just customs in different places. In some places tourists or visitors have to cover their shoulders in churches, too, it's just a way of being respectful in that environment. Of course you can also choose not to visit religious establishments.

You also need to think of your DD, when I was 9yrs I would have wanted the floor to swallow me up if my mother had made a fuss about a principle-I would have been so embarrassed.

I am really interested in the idea of this raising questions that you're not prepared to go into... Has your dd never seen/asked about muslim women that you see in everyday life (supermarket, park, wherever)? I know that with my own dds we'd done 'Why do those ladies cover their heads/faces/entire bodies?' and had moved on by the age of about 3 or 4.

More specifically, my dd2 did visit a mosque when she was in Year 2 (so was 6 or 7) and was asked to cover her head. I do identify myself as a feminist, and dd knows very well that we consider men and women to be equal. However, I allowed her to go to the mosque, because actually we 'do' male/female equality every single day (in the sense that it is one of the principal values that our family lives by), whereas the chance to do something to promote religious tolerance and understanding through this visit was a one-off experience, and one that I wanted her to have.

If you feel strongly enough about it, OP, then don't send your dd on the trip. I would respect that position. But don't hide the reason for doing so; explain to her why you are objecting. If you feel that strongly she deserves to understand your pov.

(Incidentally, the only parents who didn't send their kids on the mosque trip when my dd's class went were the ones who objected on religious (Christian) grounds to their children finding out about other religions. Personally (and I am a Christian myself), I find that more unacceptable than agreeing to wear a headscarf...

I think pretty much everyone would agree that it is manners to observe the customs of a place that you are visiting. If you don't agree with the customs, then don't go, and visit a mosque that doesn't have that requirement instead.

It is merely polite, when a vistor, to follow the norms-'when in Rome'.
I would think it incredibly rude for a male or female to go into a catholic church in Spain in shorts and vest top or boys to keep a baseball cap on in a place of worship. It is a question of respect.
I hate to take my shoes off in someone's house, but if asked I politely do so-not argue about my rights!

There isn't a rule that mens can't wear hats in church. If there was, there would be no such thing as a biretta.

Just wait until they visit a Christian church. Then the boys will be told to take their hats off--and how sweet revenge will be!