My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

No, it is up to the school to either get in contact with a more appropriate mosque through an appropriate Muslim education organisation so that there is no need to tell the girls what to wear, or to make it clear that the trip is optional.

"But I do feel a school has no right to tell girls that they must or must not wear a headscarf."

I think that depends on the policy of the mosque. If the mosque demands that girls must cover their hair then surely it is up to the school to inform the parents so that the children come prepared. It would look bad for the school if none of the girls had headscarves and they were turned away for being inappropriately dressed.

In fact, I am confused by your response.

My post said:

'Do you think that belief in gender equality isn't an important part of people's lives, and that it is a deeply held belief, worthy of respect?'

And you responded:

' I can't see younarguing that my belief - not based on superstition - should be respected.'

I surely am arguing that it is worthy of respect?!

Greythorne, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing quite the opposite. What I'm saying is that just as we respect the rights of a woman to wear a headscarf because of her beliefs, the rights of a woman not to wear a headscarf because of her beliefs about equality should be likewise respected.

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't respect religious belief, but I respect the right of others to hold them.

I don't feel a need to question an individual woman about the reasons why she does or does not wear a headscarf, nor do I feel a need to make assumptions about a woman based on what she does or does not wear. But I do feel a school has no right to tell girls that they must or must not wear a headscarf.

Have only skimmed the thread but is it possible that this particular mosque insists on girls covering their heads - even 9yos who aren't Muslims? Equally of course the school may have assumed, so that's worth checking. Contact the mosque and ask them. And then let the school know if they are wrong, so your dd isn't the only one not to wear a headscarf.

I don't like sexism either but I suspect when I was a child, I'd have quite liked wearing a headscarf on a school trip had it been necessary - would have made it more interesting/different. Although I might have questioned why only the girls and not the boys. (My Mother had me trained, those sappy Peter and Jane books came with feminist commentary when she was reading them. 'Why can't Jane help Daddy wash the car? Why can't Peter help Mummy wash up? Why can't Daddy wash up and Mummy fix the car? This book is silly, isn't it?')

Supercedes

MillyR
Do you know what religion is? It is a set of beliefs or superstitions or fears or stories. I can accept that some people choose to believe supserstitious stories but as an atheist, I don't need to respect their superstitions to the point of subjugating myself.

I would never wear a headscarf or force my child to wear one to "respect" others' superstitions.

My belief that men and women are equal suoerceds that and I can't see younarguing that my belief - not based on superstition - should be respected.

I think what I find perplexing on this thread is the constant references to respect for other people's belief, it just being feminist theorising, it not being an issue etc.

I am genuinely interested to know if people think feminism is just an excuse to be awkward. Do you think that belief in gender equality isn't an important part of people's lives, and that it is a deeply held belief, worthy of respect? Why is the OP's desire for her daughter not to wear a head scarf just as worthy as another mothers religious belief that her daughter must wear a headscarf?

I cannot see why one is being treated as trivial and obstructive while the other is being treated as worthy of respect. Surely both beliefs should be treated with equal respect?

Thebossofme

That is the ideal solution. All heads covered, or none.

Again, what is the explanation for why girls must cover their hair but NOT boys? Both sexes have heads, both have hair, so what is the rationale for treating the boys and girls differently - in terms a 9 year old can understand?

This isn't about adopting a religious or cultural style of dress to show respect. It is about a belief that it is wrong to expose girls' hair, but not wrong to expose boys' hair.

I feel the same when other religions require a gender distinction too; caps for boys but not for girls.

I take Riven's point that this is most likely a stuff up by the school, but the question remains to be answered.

I suspect thus is the schools request rather than the mosques. The only mosques I know that ask girls to cover heads as mandatory also ask the same of boys.

I didnt read supers comment that way. Personally i am more than happy to dress a certain way in other faiths houses of worship. I like visiting temples and buildings.

I find tv, magazines and stories far more damaging to girls than a possible religious trip where girls would put on a piece of cloth or boys wear a skullcap in a synagogue.
When i went to a hindu wedding i wore a sari. The men didnt have too. So?

Riven
I think it is fine to learn both about religions and how different religions treat women differently. I don't think compromising one's own principles by forcing a child to cover her head / hajr is necessary for either of these objectives. Supergreenuk's comment that "it's all part of the culture" suggested to me that she was in favour of these girls covering up in order to participate in the class trip. That is my axe. These girls should not have to cover up to learn about religion or culture or anything else.

Reading this thread somewhat nervously as I am about to organise a trip to a mosque!
I do feel that for half an hour I can fall in line with the practices of a different culture/religion. If I didn't, I would never be able to learn as much about the beliefs of others. I have removed shoes/covered hair as required. For those who couldn't do this, I wonder what you'd do if invited to a wedding or funeral were this was the expectation? This is not an issue that I believe compromises my feminist principles, though it's very interesting for me to learn how it affects some others. I think others might perceive the actions as anti-islamic rather than pro-gender equality.

You nit allowed to know that stuff then greythorne? But if yiu do t learn it then how can you know its not right?

St Mark's is modest dress, for both sexes, no head covering required.
If head covering is required, no big deal, catholics did it until quite recently.

My DD went last week and the boys had to wear a hat too!!
Im deeply religious, but want her to learn that not everyone has the same belief as us, and not everyone has the same "rules" towards woman as we do.
She learnt alot and even had a long dicussion on why men and woman pray seperately.

Wasn't sure about heads so I did qualify it :)

Crumpet

Men and women have to be dressed modestly in St Mark's for example. Women do not have to coverbtheir heads.

the different ways the different religions treat the sexes
boak boak boak

Please get a grip before posting on this board.

supergreenuk
you do realise you are posting on the feminism board, don't you?

I agree with kittens. The image of Islam portrayed by the media is very different from the reality. A lot of the customs we as Westerners view as 'anti-women' are actually cultural traditions and not based in religion at all.

I'm practising C of E but would follow whatever is required if I was to visit another place of worship - it's about manners and respect. I have learnt a little about Islam recently having got back in touch with an old friend whose DH is a Muslim, and also through researching for a story I'm writing. It's a really fascinating subject - it would be a shame for your DD to miss out on broadening her horizons if you don't allow her to take part.

At 9 her life is going to soon be full of awkward questions so you may as well get used it!

If you go to visit churches in Italy, (eg St Mark's in Venice) the rules posted are no shorts or bare shoulders (men and women) and I think ladies must cover their heads too

Surly it's all part of learning about the culture. she will learn why she is covering up and the different ways religions treat the sexes. It doesn't mean it means anything to her or that she will buy into it.

Theres a difference between cuktural practices and what thr religion asks for. But i still reckon the school has it wrong. A mosque that encourages school visits isnt going to do anything to make non muslim parents froth given the rising islamaphobia. Dd went a few weeks back, scarves never mentioned.