My 9y old DD is visiting a mosque with the school & has been told to cover her head.

I think it's a bit pathetic TBH to quibble about whirl wearing s headscarf to a mosque.

I think my daughter is better served exploring other views and cultures in growing up as an independent woman. I just asked her to think about it. She was surprised the women had to pray separately to the men.

I think it's very important she learns as much as she canfirst hand about these issues as she already says things like " so and so play together because they are Muslims." The divide is already there.

BTW I was required covered my chest and arms (but not my head) when visiting mosques and temples in the middle east. dP was required tocover his head in the Holocaust museum in Jerusalem. We both did out of politeness even though we don't believe in any God.

MillyR thats really not what she has said, if that was the case she wouldnt have a problem talking to her dd about it and she wouldnt say she was so against it! you cant respect someones choice while being strongly against it!

somethingwitty82 that is a jihad website, they are extreme and do not share the views of the majority of muslims! there are extremists in every religion, the nazi's of the world so dont assume what they believe all muslims believe!

Ti e for me to leave now the debate has decsended to islam bashing. Change the record.

YS, the OP is respecting other people's choices. She isn't asking other people's children not to wear a headscarf. She is asking other people to respect her choice for her daughter not to wear one. Why don't you respect her choice?

And is it any of our business to be questioning women on why they choose to wear or not wear a particular item of clothing or why they feel strongly about it? Shouldn't we stop expecting women's clothing to have to be explained and justified?

Why are you STRONGLY opposed to it? the women choose to wear the head scarves and it is only fair to respect other peoples choices it doesnt harm anyone! I think it is a great oppourtunity for your dd to learn and experience other cultures! by having this 'issue' you are highlighting the differences which needn't be highlighted!

Unless schools are going to show the harsh reality they should not be promoting religion- It is lies and contrary to what science has shown to be true

They just briefly waft over the briefest festivals and foods, a theme park version of religion. There are so many branches of Islam and some dont even recognise others as being Muslim it is not a true representation.

The view that a veil is just a fashionable piece of clothing totally misses the what it stands for.

Here is an email encouraging women to cover up and the views behind it
like flys to a lollipop

Do you really believe that hocuspontas? My children came back from nursery full of 'girls can't do x,y,z rubbish'. Then there are primary school homeworks of the find a famous scientist nature (very very few women on the list of possibilities if any). I'd be surprised if a nine year old hadn't come across casual sexism. Plus if they ever watch the news of course (granted not all nine year olds do).

Apologies somethingwittyyou are more learned than I. When I studied Islam (many years ago so it is all quite hazy) I was interested in the respect that Islam gave to other peoples who followed revealed scriptures.

However I would be amazed if an ordinary English school taught more than the absolute basics (main tenets of faith, major festivals) about any faith other than Christianity.

Personally as an atheist I am not keen on any of the messages propagated by any major religion. I don't have such a problem with the basic theology in general (although they all seem to have their share of nasty bits in their scriptures) but with the practices that have grown up over time. Plus intra-religious wars are a historical fact with most large organised faiths (probably with small ones too).

I can't think of any reason why a 9 year old girl would necessarily know about inequality of the sexes in the world.

DD1 covered her head to visit a mosque. It was a good opportunity for her to learn about another religion and culture. It was also a good opportunity for her muslim classmates to share a bit of what they do, what they believe.

Head covering is not new to DD1, many of her female classmates do it every day.

I asked her why she thought onl;y the girl;s had to cover their heads. She hadn't really thought about it (she is 6) but the girls certainly enjoyed the opportunity to be the 'same' as their muslim classmates.

Actually thats total bollocks:

Islam was created after Christanity so Jesus had nothign to say on the matter and was of course Jewish when he was born and Jewish when he died

The Koran - which the words of god word for word says:

O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly makemany of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection

There is also a part thats says Jews are apes and swine made flesh- this is taught as part of the Saudi national curriculum, the C4 dispatches showed this curriculum being taught in the UK
Islam is split into various factions that routinely murder each other - shia, sunni, salafi etc etc

Can you really not see the problem with Girls alone being told they are indecent and going to a religious house that enshrines their sub male status?

Will they mention how women are treated in Muslim countrys, about the police of vice and virtue and hymen restoration and child brides? NO! They will not criticise their archaic values

They will waffle about tolerence and love in a building women arent allowed to pray beside men in and must hide their indecency.

Their is no edict in the Koran that requires it and is normally for post pubescent women so the fact they want such young girls to cover up so as not to inflame the lust of the males is pretty fucking sick.

How can the school claim to value equality then do this?

I've only read the first few posts but I couldn't agree more. When I was in Malaysia I was desperate to see inside their grand mosque but was told I'd have had to wear a chador and it was boiling. So I said stuff it, I'm not going in if DH gets to wear a TShirt and long shorts.

Actually Islam is quite respectful of other faiths that share the Abrahamic god. Much more than Christianity is tolerant of Islam for example (from a theological standpoint that is).

I really don't understand the OP at all. My dd is 10 and has been capable of having deep and complicated conversations about the 'why' of life for years, I'd see this as an interesting opportunity to talk about religious attitudes to women. Of course I believe that men and women are equal but in general the world does not and I'd be very surprised if a 9 year old hasn't noticed that (and if they hadn't I woudl have pointed it out).

Re the trip I'd ask a few questions, but I'd still send my dd even with a headscarf, just suitably primed.

You can guarantee the school will not point out the subhuman treatment of women encouraged by religion and in practice Islam today is by far the worse.
It will be a lesson in 'all views are valid' and cultural relativism, in no way will it present children will the reality of forced marriage, cousin marrriage, FGM, honour killings/beheadings, marital rape and Allahs words, verbatim, stating womens testimony is worth less than a mans and inheritance should be less.

It is compulsory indoctrination and in order to learn about all these women must wear a symbol of their 'submission'

Perhaps they could make the Jewish students wear a symbol, I am given to understand Allah has strong feeling about them

I think if the OP feels so strongly that she isn't willing for her daughter to take part in the trip or cover up if she does so that's fine, but she must be willing to explain to her why, or better still, explain first and let her DD make her own mind up.

There is also a danger (and I'm not for one minute suggesting that this is the case) that others will take OP's stand to be racial rather than feminist, and simply being 'not prepared/willing to talk to her' about the issue really doesn't cut it.

Also, going back to Greythorne's response to supergreen's post:

^the different ways the different religions treat the sexes
boak boak boak^

It may well be 'boak' but it is a fact that different religions and cultures do treat men & women differently. It may not be right in 'our' opinion, but if we don't educate our children about these things how can we expect them to challenge the status quo in the future?

Would anyone be ok with black kids being told to cover up?

Riven, that does not surprise me at all. Mine have been told all manner of peculiar things by visiting Christian representatives.

DD has had a much more positive experience of Islam than of other religions. The school set up a partnership with a school in the neighbouring county, where almost the entire school is Muslim. They frequently spend a day with their year group at the other school, or the other school comes to them. It is a shame that primary schools have become so segregated, but it does more to promote understanding than guitar playing vicars.

DS is doing the new RE GCSE, so will be looking at it through aesthetics and representation rather than beliefs.

Oh yeah, the uniform fiasco. I'm in the middle of wording an email to dd2's head about the inequalities and cost differences between the uniforms. E.g. girl's blouse - £10 from outfitters, boy's shirt £2 from Asda.

Sorry to digress op.

And boys arent allowed to wear skirts.

Really? Not that i know schools actually did swimming lessons. My older three never made it past year two and the youngest is in Y2 right now.

In the school the boys went to to do gcses and A levels the girls HAD to wear skirts. Trousers not allowed.

But the shoes off thing would be equally 'wrong' if men were allowed to keep theirs on!

Now don't get me started on school swimming lessons where girls have to wear swimming hats but boys don't!

When my older 3 were little milly they had to visit the local church as part of y2 trip. Not only did the guitar playing vicar tell them they were going to hell if they didnt go to church, he told them old buildings had ghosts of the damned in. Cheers mate, years of anxious kids.
I knkw thats not gender doodah but it was bloody annoying.

If you dont want to visit a building of a certain faith then dont go. Then no fussing about beliefs or respect or nothing.
Its like the temples in Bali. No menstruating women are allowed in them. I dont agree with that belief but its not my temple. So i have to respect what the temple users want. Or not go.
Or like visiting someone with a shoes off house policy. If you dont agree and cant bear to follow someones rules then dont go.
So the op could withdraw her child from the trip. But i would check with the actual mosque first. The school might have got the wro end of the stick or be ignorant about customs too. Who knows.
Has the OP been back with an update?

Ooo, just thought of anither example which was mentioned on another thread. Someone said in posh country houses the women are expected to withdraw after dinner and leave the men to important stuff. I think thats awful. So i just wouldnt go if invited to a posh dinner party like that.

I am really glad that my children have never been required to visit religious buildings, so have not had to go through any of this.