to wonder why I am so bloody UN-feminist??!!

'I think women should really be at home and look after their children

I think there are lots of jobs women should not/can not do e.g. fireman'

I am a shouty ranty feminist and I don't disagree with anything you've said- except the above which are a generalising load of bollocks frankly.....the rest is your choice. Who doesn't envy 'kept' people at times? Why is caring for a child not valued as much as paid work?

Nah, he's an over-entitled git imo. But they're emblematic of what feminism's still up against. Vast numbers of people still see her life as typical of a woman's role ... not so much having it all as doing it all :(

I don't think those are typical of most women who don't want to label themselves feminists!

A client of mine told me she runs her H's bath for him, gets his sliippers, gives him a neck rub at the end of the day and so on. She runs three businesses, cleans the inside of her ktichen cupboards every week (she does a few each evening) and is constantly worried about her weight. She's been hospitalised with a stress-related every year in the 4 years I've worked with her.

She is proud of the level of service she provides her husband. She's his second wife, and is convinced he loves her more than W#1 because the first one didn't "look after him".

Neither of them "have any time for feminists"

I know what you mean - my marriage was quite tradtional once we had the kids, and I liked it that way. Work sucks! I wanna be with my kids! But I accept others feel differently of course.

I don't think its being a Stepford Wife unless you act like a servile robot and I don't think many western women are like THAT anymore.

I don't label myself a feminist (mainly because I don't like labels) I say I believe in equal rights and opportunities for everyone. Who could argue with that??

Thanks jo :)

Don't worry Trillian - we won't get sick of it! I saw it in another thread and have adopted it as part of my collection of feminist mantras!

Yay, I get to put in my quiz again (you are all going to get so sick of this)

1 - Do you think that people should be treated, valued & respected equally, no matter what their gender?
Yes - go to 2
No - You are a sexist
2 - Do you believe that this is currently not the case?
Yes - go to 3
No - take a look around, things are not as equal as they seem - if still in doubt read The Equality Illusion - then answer yes and go to 3
3 - Would you like it to be the case?
Yes - Congratulations, you are a feminist
No - Er, what? You think people should be equal but you don't want them to be? Huh?

The reason women get paid less is not because of their lack of experience but because employers know that they can get away with it and as a society we value women's work less. Look at any industry that is predominantly female and you'll see that it is likely to have low status and low pay.

OP, I think you place far too much faith in men's sense of fairness. Just a few decades ago it was perfectly acceptable to pay women less precisely because of their gender. It was perfectly acceptable to specify gender in job ads as well as insist that (only) female candidates be physically attractive.

A few laws and decades later, do you really think people's attitudes have changed that much, that all employers have suddenly developed a conscience and now believe in fairness? It would be naive to think that they have.

I also think the criteria should be the same for both men and women.

You are a fucking idiot if you don't think a woman can be a firefighter.

I believe there are different criteria for male and females for joining the fire dept, same as in the police. I think the criteria should be the same for all, if that makes it less likely for women to be able to join then I would think it was sad. But if I inhale too much smoke and passout I do hope that the person who finds me can lift my ass out of the building. Be they male or female I couldn't care less.

The only 2 things I disagree with are these:

I think women should really be at home and look after their children - only if that's what they want to do. Some children benefit more going to nursery/childminder/having a nanny than having a mummy unhappy staying at home with them because really they would like to work.

I think there are lots of jobs women should not/can not do e.g. fireman - why not? If they pass all the physical tests then I don't see why not. Obviously the strongest/fastest man is going to be stronger/faster than the strongest/fastest woman but inbetween there are many women who are actually better than men.

Why should women be paid the same if they have had time off to have children and therefore have less experience??? Women should not be paid less just because of their gender. People should be paid based on their experience which is what you are saying. Not all women have a lot of time off when they have children, not all women have children, so why should they be paid less then men? Men have career breaks too, sometimes child related, sometimes not.

Exactly littlemissa
Perhaps your mum is proud of your job, your independence, perhaps she wishes she had those opportunities. Perhaps she felt she had no life choices?

Either way there isn't a woman (or a man) in this country who doesn't benefit from feminism and to say differently is an insult to women who have suffered at the hands of men due to the lack of equality ( especially in law). It's so dull to have to spell it out to you but the right to vote, inherit, own property, the equal pay act, the right not to be raped within marriage are all issues that feminism has brought forward. I should feel sorry for you that you can't see it but actually I feel angry. Just became you have opted to be a SAHM for now doesn't mean you aren't a feminist.

You are a fucking idiot if you don't think a woman can be a firefighter.

FFS. Is The Wright Stuff missing a piece for tomorrow and are you the unfortunate researcher tasked with with finding a replacement?

If not, then I pity you. Enslaved to your ridiculous views. Good luck if your husband ever fucks off.

Tethers put it very well....it's all in the labelling...the packaging. How important do you see your role as a SAHM being in a wider sense?

The media portrays SAHM's as cupcake baking twonks...who care little for anything other than their homes and how they look and bragging about their DC.

When in fact SAHM's contribute massively to sociey as a whole. Bringing up children, teaching and nurturing them is a huge task and the gratitude which some people think SAHMs owe to their partners should be a two way thing.

Aarrgh!

Ask your DH -

Just suppose YOU got run over by a bus.

Does he know how much a full day-time nanny costs? and a full time NIGHT nanny? Plus weekends?

Calculate that 24/7.

Then add in full time housekeeper and full time cleaner and full time PA/Administrator. And accounts-clerk/bookeeper.

And sex-worker (if you want to reductio ad absurdam hmm

£35k+?? Absolute rock-bottom minimum??

If you negotiate taking on these tasks with your partner's agreement, don't ever feel you are contributing less to yhr household than a paid worker. Don't' let your partner feel he is contributing more than you are.

I assume of course, that you ARE actually pulling your weight on the domestic front of course .

Are you sure that that is not just feeling like you would like to be able to be financially secure whilst bringing up your child(ren) full time?

The fact that that rarely comes about without being 'looked after by a man' is the fault of a patriarchal society- besides, you would be providing childcare. The fact that you see this as an unequal exchange of labour is again testament to the low status of child rearing in our society. We are constantly told that the work traditionally done by women (child rearing, housework etc) is of little or no value to society, and that women who stay at home ought to be 'grateful' to their partner who works outside of the home.

Well said, MsTeak.
I really don't get OP's prescriptive attitude at all.
'Un-feminist' - definitely. But also just really, really silly.

But what has being a SAHM got to do with being looked after? If you are a SAHM, you're the one who will be looking after people. Or do you mean you're putting your child into nursery and staying at home?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I get that, totally. But do you feel that as virtue of having a willy and balls, that man should be allowed to govern you?

And haven't you actually already chosen that man to be the one who 'looks after you?'. Was he chosen for you?

Don't get bogged down by stereotypes, is all I mean.

And cook. And gardener.