Starting to wish we had old fashioned me (mum) stay at home, he (dad) go out to work set up :(

Bonsoir, I disagree that this is an inevitable result of having state-funded childcare. There will always be families who will prefer not to do this. There are many women out there who could make much more profit if they went back to work even after paying childcare, but they choose not to. I think there are far more women who want to work but are prevented from doing so because of the cost of childcare.

Ah, Bonsoir, DH would say that I do neither if we were arguing that...

Which is why I go off every so often on my own and let him find out what I do do.... :o

Lovecat - I think it is really important to unpick the argument whereby votes are allocated proportionally to financial contribution to household.

There is contribution to household in £££ terms, and there is contribution to household in kind, to which you can, if it helps, apportion a notional £££ value in cost of replacement.

I work 4 days a week spread over five and I find nothing gets done 'properly' - if it weren't for the cleaner the house would be a tip, DD stays in after school clubs far too long for my liking and I'm constantly juggling/running around keeping plates spinning...

However, and this is the weird thing, my DH is often away abroad on business, and when he's away, things run far more smoothly... because then I know it's all down to me, and I don't have to cater for him as well as myself/DD.

That actually sounds like I run around after DH, and I don't, he's pretty self-sufficient... but when he takes charge of the child-related duties, it's never a solo effort if I'm present in the house, if that makes sense. I'm being forever badgered about where her socks/clean uniform etc are (same place as always...) and what he should make her for breakfast/take in for lunch/where her homework is/why hasn't xyz been done (when it's generally the first time I've heard of xyz) etc etc.

Weirdly, and I have pointed this out to him, the rare times I'm not around, he gets on with it, DD doesn't go to school naked/hungry and it all works out, it's just like he can't function if he knows I'm somewhere in the house to fall back on...

I suppose, having rambled 'aloud' on this thread, that I get a lot more done/am more efficient when he's not there because when he's not there it's just me making the decisions and so there's no hassle, no second-guessing, it just gets done and so it's far easier!

That's not to say I don't sometimes just want to stay at home and bake LDR/be with DD in the school hols/spend time with her on her homework when she's not so tired it turns into a battle.... but so does DH (more football less baking on his part) and we can't both do it (unless we just go live in the tent in a layby somewhere).

Also, when I was on maternity leave, suffering PND and not 'contributing' as much as he felt I ought to be (financially or in terms of housekeeping), I found DH's respect for me dropped to zero. He denies that it did, but then, he said in the course of an argument that as he earned the most (a very recent phenomena) he should get more of a say in how things were done. DH is the sort who is very calm and laid back normally but he broods on things and so on the rare occasions we argue I feel that the truth really comes out, iyswim? He backtracked immediately when I challenged him on it, but it's left me feeling very wary of putting myself in a position where I'm financially dependent on him. Which is quite sad...

I'll stop rambling now!

"I feel respected as a professional at work in a way I don't get at home, where I am just 'mum' iyswim."

Going on multiple posts on MN, your feelings are clearly shared by many others (though not by me). If you don't feel respected at home, why is that? What do you think you could do to be respected more at home?

I used to envy people that worked and had childcare

I used to work weekend nights after looking after ds's all week. Now the ds's are getting older I work week nights and have increased my hours. I am enjoying my job much more and value the time I do get at home more.

I feel respected as a professional at work in a way I don't get at home, where I am just 'mum' iyswim. I need the challenge work provides and I really feel I do need that other part of me. I think that becomes more of an issue once your children are school age as mine are.

"I passionately believe that childcare should be largely state funded for this reason."

When this happens, mothers are forced into work by their partners as it is more financially viable for them to do so. It's another form of exploitation and removes from mothers the choice of whether to work or not.

"I am craving head space I think and want to do some things myself instead of paying others to do them for me!!! No cleaner, no gardener, no on line, no childcare!"

This is a huge issue, IMO. When you do all the routine housework and errands yourself, they can seem like massive and very dull chores; when you outsource them to others, it can feel as if your own life is being outsourced and you are losing control of the very core of your existence.

My own feeling, having tried many arrangements, is that I absolutely hate having other people working in my house - I like my home to be my own personal, private space to share with my family. So I subcontract as much as possible outside the physical confines of my home, apart from a regular massive spring clean from time to time.

sybil "Overall, as a family, we are having a better life, but I am the one that is paying the biggest price for that" you've hit the nail on the head for me here, that is exactly how i feel

the main reason i went back to work (when dd was 1 yr) was because dh was stressed about his job security. we had enough money to live comfortably, but dh worried about being sole earner. i was reluctant to return to work, but obviously felt his feelings were valid and being sole earner is a reasonable thing to be stressed about. fortunately found something suitable and am comfortable with how it worked out for us. i'd always expected to be a sahm, dunno why, as my mum and grandmas all worked. but despite thinking i've got the best balance achievable for my family at this time i can' help but wonder if things would be better if i worked more, or less, or weekdays with childcare instead of weekends with dd with dh.

Really interesting thread. I have a slightly different take on things as i run my own business so am not tied to a 9 to 5.

For childcare i have a nanny share in place with a friend who is also freelance so I have two days (school hours) to pack in as much work as I then have three days with my dc's (5 and 2). Work has really picked up lately and I had to decide whether to get more childcare. I decided in the end that I love my time with my girls so I hired my first employee (my cousin who just graduated and is struggling to find a graduate job in his field).

It has it's ups and downs but on the whole I feel I have a good bance to life. My DH would love to cut down on his hours to have more time with our dd's but his work point blank refuses.

Joric I hope you can find something that works for you and your family.

great post Sunshine

Ha ha, neither do we. I've made a decision, I'm going to cut my hours to 30 a week, this thread has convinced me!

Joric, I don't think it's a desire you should feel 'ashamed' of or worry about posting about on a feminist forum. A lot of feminists, me included, think the role of SAHM is something to be respected. It performs a vital social and economic function. I am a single parent with a full-time job BTW in case you are wondering how my opinion is affected by my personal circumstances.

Being a SAHM becomes a problem when it is exploited by the other partner, not respected enough, or leaves the woman feeling unfilled because she has not chosen that role but is forced into it out of necessity. No woman who wants to work should be denied that because it is considered her duty to stay at home or because she cannot afford the childcare. I passionately believe that childcare should be largely state funded for this reason.

Some feminists take the other view and believe that fully emancipated women would never choose to lead a life of what they consider domestic servitude. I don't agree with them personally. Being a SAHM is certainly demanding and it can be boring and drudge-like on occasion (the same as any paid job) but it has incomparable rewards if it's what you want to do, and how on earth can it be 'wrong' to look after your own child? Children have to be cared for in order for other adults (e.g. your DH) to work, and surely it makes sense for a willing, enthusiastic mother to perform that vitally important nurturing function instead of someone with no real vested interest other than money being paid to do it?

If it's what you want to do, and you can make it work financially, do it. You are not 'letting the side down' or any such rubbish. I am not an expert on feminism but certainly my own personal brand of it would be abhorred by the notion that you should be 'told' what is in either your or your family's best interests.

Hope it works out for you.

I never thought I would say this, but I really want to quit work and be a SAHM. I've just found out that the before and after school club is closing in July and the thought of trying to find alternative childcare is just depressing me. For a number of different reasons this will be the fourth time I've had to do this in just 3 years (post reception great childminder quit to look after her dying dad, post year 1 great childminder quit to take job nearer her home, now club closes). I feel awful that dd1 has had so many carers and faces getting used to another one. I just want to give up, but we can't afford it. I hanker after the 70's upbringing I had when my mum was at home for 14 years.

I think the traditional model is absolutely fine as long as the role of SAHP is chosen voluntarily and that the working partner holds the SAHP in high regard and respects the role for its true worth.

However, your grandparents lived in an era where MC jobs were typically paid enough to support a normal family with just one parent working. The same cannot be said nowadays.

Yes, it's actually a very nice feeling to care for your home and family yourself not to outsource it always.

I take huge pride in doing domestic things-making nice packed lunches, sewing on name tapes, cooking, that sort of stuff.I want to do it.

I always describe my choice to be SAHM as a neo-feminist decision.I have seen too many women run themselves into the ground managing a full time job, childcare, household issues and all the rest. In most cases where both parents work equal hours the mother is the one running around arranging emergency childcare when things go wrong and squeezing every hour to fit it all in. I fail to see how this is women getting a better deal!

I strongly support those who chose to work but for me the choice is to be a mother and not wear myself out doing it and working as well. Mother is a full time job, why would I want two?
SAHM can be tough but I don't regret my decision!