Why do women still get "given away"

I got married last year, for the second time around. The first time, I was 'given away', against my better judgement - but I was 19, and just thought that that was the way it was done and that was that. The second time, I was 49 and had more clout. In a register office wedding it is entirely the choice of the couple - you absolutely do not have to be either walked down the aisle, or given away. I chose to have my son (aged 19) walk me down the aisle, and no-one gave me away. It was a truly lovely ceremony, and my Dad wasn't at all put out - and even admitted that the first time round he didn't feel he really had any right to give me away!!

dh is a minister and has married many many couples. He saw this on Twitter and just said to me that he has always asked every single couple he's ever married, whether they want to do this. He's pointed out that it's a throwback to a different era. But every single bride has always wanted to have the wording included.

Like someone else said, you can be accompanied down the aisle without the giving away part (ie no hand transfer and nothing said by celebrant). I did this - I viewed having my brother (df is dead) and my bridesmaid walking with me as being "team iggi", while dh had his bestman as his support. I could not have been given away, couldn't stomach that, but think what I did worked fine.

Women who don't want to be 'given away' have obviously thought deeply about it too-just come to different conclusions-nothing wrong with that. There is never a 'right' answer-merely a 'right answer for you'.

I thought everyone knew a wedding was 'the brides mother's day' so nice to have something for dads. (I can safely say that-I shall never be the bride's mother)

So women who do what you approve of are "intelligent women who've thought about it deeply" but women who don't are insecure nitpickers who don't love their Dads and think too much?

I assume that intelligent women have thought about it deeply, as I have, and that they wish to have the lovely tradition for fathers (who don't get a lot) and they don't expect friends to come to the wedding nit picking other people's choices, or thinking that because the bride wants to have a special moment with her father that she expects her friends to do the same-the friend is entirely free not to walk down the aisle and be given away.(if that is what you want to call it).

I don't insult people by thinking that because they do something that I don't agree with that they'followed blindly'.

If the army story is true it serves them right for not questioning earlier and I have no sympathy. Everyone should question, but they shouldn't get upset if someone comes to different conclusions and then label it 'wrong' as opposed to 'wrong for me', which is a world of difference.

I will withdraw it CaptainBizarro, since you asked in a pleasant, balanced and non lecturing way.

I don't expect that it was the word I was looking for.

I don't withdraw the fact that I think it nitpicking to go to a wedding and start criticising traditions or the way things are done. Just relax-have a day off overthinking -and enjoy the day! No one is forcing you to do it that way yourself.

exoticfruits - in the nicest, least confrontational way possible - please could you stop with the repeated 'insecure' accusations?

I am a post-grad educated, nice white middle class girl, who has progressed quickly in my career, never had to ask for a pay-rise or promotion, never experienced the glass ceiling, never been in a bad relationship with a man; let alone an abusive one, never been sexually assualted, and have nothing but lovely, kind, decent caring men in my life.

I have nothing to be 'insecure' about, and have never experienced anything like real sexism in my life.

But it's not all about me.

Those are all choices that women can make, and there are certainly feminist considerations to making them.

But feminism is not about those minor little sideline quibbles.

Women (despite your "I'm all right Jacqueline" attitude) are not equal - they don't have an equal share of power, of property, of status OR (for many women in this country) do they get to make free choices for themselves.

There are women in the UK today who are treated as property, so your bland assurances that you don't feel like property, and therefore that it is silly to think about women as chattel is irrelevant to feminism are pretty offensive.

Feminism has never been about self-satisfied well-off women with freedom and choices telling everyone else that since they are happy with their lot that anyone who is a feminist is "insecure" and "over thinking". And then, mostly laughably of all, claiming that because they are a woman, they are above criticism by other women.

If you're so equal and not a victim, then accept that your ideas can be challenged. Holding simplistic and foolish opinions based on ignorance is not a "choice" that other people should have to respect just because you are a woman.

It is the choice to be WOHM or SAHM, to be Ms or Mrs, to change your surname or not, to walk down the aisle with your father etc etc etc There is no 'right choice' just a 'right choice for you'.

What would it mean for feminism to be "about" choice?

I thought it was consumerism that was about choice.

A lot of women do think that feminism means that individual women can do whatever they want and not be criticised for it.

But those women don't know what they're talking about.

I agree with the OP. Find the whole idea quite distasteful, although I will also freely concede that the very idea of walking down the aisle with my father makes me shudder because I really do not like the man. I can just imagine it. Vile.

Of course feminism is about choices. Perish the thought that we are independent enough to make our own and not have to follow a certain line!

I refuse to be a victim.I am equal, I am not 'property'.Even way back at the beginning of 20th century my grandmother didn'tput up with any of that rubbish!

Feminists shouldn't be patronising other women because they won't lie down and meekly agree with those who think they 'know it all'.

I have studied history.

If you go around letting women make choices about stuff that affects them then they might make the wrong decisions.

Best to let someone who knows better make the choices for them.

"Nope, feminism is not about women having choices."

Why not? I think you will find that most women do think that is the case.

Nope, feminism is not about women having choices.

Nor is it about women getting to hold stupid opinions and have other women tell them those opinions are valid.

If you think the idea of women as property is daft then you clearly know fuck all about recent history or current affairs. That's up to you, but insisting that opinions based on determined ignorance are as valid as any other is obtuse.

It isn't just as valid to see the transfer of women as property as not sexist

I don't see it is transfer of women as property so it isn't sexist.The idea of me being the property of my father and handed over to be the property of my DH is utterly ludicrous. I wouldn't even tell that there was such a strange idea they would be and -it would never have crossed their minds.
Feminism is about women having choice and not being told what they are allowed to think (or have to think) by other women.
I would have liked my father to have walked me down the aisle, it is merely tradition and I don't see the problem as a close woman friend could equally have walked me down the aisle, I just happened to choose my brother. I have no idea at all whether I was 'handed over' -I have forgotten-it is so unimportant.

For example, if what one woman wanted was to take away the right of all other women to vote, then her getting what she wants wouldn't be feminist, now, would it?

With this little stuff, it's harder to parse. That's why (i think - might be wrong) the 70s feminists used to say 'the personal is political' - and I think that's true. If you and your dh both go out to work and he never lifts a finger in the house, that's political right there. If you go out to dinner with your male artner and the menus, wine, and bill are all offered straight to him, that's political, right there. It's about power, you see.

If your father ceremonially hands you into the care of your husband, that's about power dynamics, and it's personal and also political. How you choose to feel about it is of course up to you.

To use the example above, saying that "I choose to celebrate Christmas though I'm not a Christian." is fair enough, but saying "because I am not a Christian I choose not to think that Christmas has any roots in Christianity" is just not correct.

No, feminism is not about women having what they want.

My dad didn't 'give me away' but he did escort me down the aisle and I wouldn't gave had it any other way. I am his daughter and now I am my husbands wife, I see nothing wrong with that. Isn't feminism about women having what they want? That's what i wanted

It isn't just as valid to see the transfer of women as property as not sexist.

Not all opinions are equal. Some are reasoned and well thought out, and some are stupid.