Help me explain to my friend why this is really wrong

I'm with SGB too who has been sensible throughout.
I don't think that it is a good idea to wear a bikini to wash cars, but a post like beachcombers makes me want to go out and do it this very minute! If OP were to put that to her friend I doubt it would get her anywhere at all.

I can't believe this is still going. OP's friend is doing it, OP has told her she doesn't like it and she is still doing it. She has to leave at that.

I much prefer the fact that people can do a small scale charity stunt for fun than than they get lectured along the lines of beachcomber who would make me want to run screaming for the hills!

Nope - sexiness and expressing your own sexuality is a wonderful thing, obv. But putting pantomimes of female sexuality in each or any pretexts reaffirms women's place as sexual playthings whose value is not in their car washing skills but in how well they fill a bikini, places stereotypical male desire on a privileged pedestal, and passes these 'values' down to children.

I'm with SGB - the fact that women should 'have' to cover up to be considered to be adhering to feminist principles surely just goes to prove how anti-feminist our society is. If that is going to be an excuse for men to letch and make comments it only proves that our society as a whole needs to take a good look at itself, rather than stressing out about a bunch of women dressing in bikinis to raise a few quid for a good cause.

Beachcomber: So do you think that women should only perform in public wearing burquas? Or that it is always wrong for a woman to make any reference to the fact that she's a woman and has a physical body when she appears in public? What should a feminist wear on the beach, or to a pool party? I reserve judgements like 'hideous' for things like war crimes or strangling kittens, not a small-scale charity stunt that no one is being coerced into doing.

"Beachcomber: there is a difference in a white person blacking up for a charity stunt, and a woman putting on a bikini. A woman in a bikini is not pretending to be someone else or something she's not."

I dunno SGB. If I dressed up in a bikini in order to wash cars, I would definitely be pretending to be something I'm not/have the right not to be.

I would be pretending to be a sex object.
I would be pretending to be a patriarchal caricature of femaleness.
I would be pretending that femininity is an integral part of who I am, rather than a social construct.
I would be pretending to be someone who was flattered by being objectified.
I would be pretending to be someone who didn't care that other women would feel judged and measured against their ability to carry off being 'attractive as dictated by patriarchy'.
I would be pretending to be someone who was accepting of the status quo.
I would be pretending to be someone who performs femininity and is ok with doing so.

To be honest, I'm not sure that B and W minstrel shows are worse than/different to women behaving as handmaidens to patriarchy, by dressing in bikinis and getting wet and soapy whilst performing a cleaning service for paying men.

I think both are pretty hideous. Hideous in ever so slightly different ways, but hideous all the same. (ie hideous because caricatures of oppression are being normalized and presented as superficial/no harm/all good fun/just a laugh/good for charidee. In addition, the people being characterised, exist as real people who suffer real oppression - something which is not funny in any way, shape, or form.)

Of course this is why feminists are so often painted as 'humourless' - because we don't find cultural references to our oppression, or examples of our oppression screamingly funny.

Give me a fucking break already.

there's a queue. apparently.

I flag occasionally

And I'm sure you're very good at it.

I'm always haranguing my friends.

if the OP hasn't harangued her friend, there could be a queue on here who would like to. I haven't actually harangued anyone for aaaages. Volunteering!!

Yes tbf, the OP doesn't say that she's been haranguing her friend about it. Maybe she has, maybe she hasn't.

Have you OP?

The OP knows that it is counterproductive to keep trying to persuade her friend to change her mind. The OP agreed with SGB

'SGB you're right, I can't expect her to agree with me, who am I to say whose opinion is right.'

The OP was frustrated that she couldn't seem to convince her friend. But she realises that everyone is different and sees things differently. I think she was just wondering if there is any argument that would be so strong that it could convince her friend.

It's not just you pointydog, I shouldn't have singled you out.

But not being able to articulate a viewpoint doesn't mean the viewpoint is wrong - basically every post I've ever made illustrates this to some degree

I'm just giving another opinion, sal.

Not really pointydog. Poor OP was only looking for ways to articulate her instinctive reaction. That's a very common reason for posting on MN.

Yet there's all these assumptions that she's going to berate and harangue her friend, til, beaten and cowed, the friend will agree to anything to shut her up (which as we all know, is a dynamic that never plays out in rl in all sorts of scenarios). Maybe iMemoo is a dictatorial loon, or maybe she's someone who wants to define her stance for her own benefit. Or maybe she 's just jealous .

If you can't explain by yourself why it is so wrong, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's just not a clear-cut thing and you are coming across as annoying with your 'just can't get through to her' attitude..

No sorry, if you don't understand that someone might be motivated by something other than jealousy, you're really not that bright.

She might of course, simply have been saying that out of frustration and irritation at the OP going on and on at her, but it really is the sort of sentiment I'd expect from a thick person. Intelligent ones who disagree with the OP, would be able to come up with something a bit better than that.

Beachcomber: there is a difference in a white person blacking up for a charity stunt, and a woman putting on a bikini. A woman in a bikini is not pretending to be someone else or something she's not.
A black person putting on a minstrel outfit and blackface make up and singing Mammy or something - now that would undoubtedly be uncomfortable viewing but that would probably be why it was being done in the first place. Still, that's a whole different discussion.

"in my opinion she should be able to wear whatever she likes without fear of the "pervy man form next door" groping, commenting, or otherwise."

In mine too HRH.

And if she's psychologically and intellectually armed against his disgusting behaviour, she'll be fine. But a woman who thinks that the only reason a feminist might be opposed to women taking their clothes off for charity is jealousy, doesn't sound intellectually armed to me, though perhaps she is psychologically.