Question re making yourself look pretty....

I make the grade in my job, in all jobs that I have ever done. I just dont think shaving my legs, wearing heels or bowing down to 'pressures' is the way I want to live my life. I also think I am very attractive even with my never shaved legs, flat shoes in the forces and hair not in a bun.

Twice a week I wash my hair (it doesn't need to be washed more often) and I take the time to dry it properly and run the straighteners through it - that's my only beauty practice.

"As for the painful stuff like plucking/waxing"

I don't actually find that painful anyway.

"I love how material feels against my legs when they are hairless."

So do I.

dunno, dora. i'd find it a bit patronising to be 'let off' i think. as though you couldn't expect to ever make the grade, so it was pointless trying to get you to. damned if you, damned if you don't, really.
parades different. can't march in heels.

For me personally I enjoy the process of making myself up. I like how it feels. As for the painful stuff like plucking/waxing, although I dislike the process, I enjoy how it feels afterwards.

I love how material feels against my legs when they are hairless.

I'm very motivated by the sense of touch.

I suppose its different for officers. I met Princess Anne and didnt wear heels or a bun net. I also did the Falklands Queens Birthday parade and didnt for that either. I also did the check in for all arrivals and departures to the Falklands.i just put up with a bobble and then put another bobble round it. No one ever told me you had to wear heels it was there you wanted to or not.

I did get a laugh when we were in the OCs office and I was hiding my legs behind the chair legs and he said dont worry dora I have already spotted you are wearing socks with your husbands name on! You dont care about these things so much when your a teenager and young married about things that come with being a 'wife' in society I think.

I mean by special rules that men were more likely to let you off in training if you were a girl and didnt do the uniform properly more than a would get let off, but I dont think you can help that its not like you ask them to do it.

not really special rules, dora i mean, you have a choice whether to comply or not - depends how strong of character you are. the minute i got engaged it was made very clear to me which committees i was expected to be on/ head, what my responsibilities would be when the blokes were deployed, etc etc. up until that point i had largely assumed the 'wife of' thing was a really good and old-fashioned joke. i even made an unwise-wisecrack about flower-arranging. once.

but the american book is very real. and huge. they have a real 'two for one' thing going on.

re hair etc. depends what you did, i think. with vip handling and stuff it was nets and heels all the way. corporate branding but i think you're right - if you conformed to the 'pretty woman' thing, you got away with a lot more appearance-wise. and clearly anyone with short hair and no make-up was a dyke anyway

I can't argue with that TimeWasting. I only keep up with the shaving when my legs are on show.

I'm very dark-haired, but I've been wearing maxi skirts, trousers or leggings. Same as I was wearing when I did shave my legs though. Sooo pointless.

I would like to know if those that don't shave their legs have very dark hair and are very hirsute. As I am both, I would feel very exposed and unattractive (to me) if I didn't keep my legs hair free.

Riven, you could compromise and do a little leg hair topiary. Little love hearts on your shins?

I used to wear the skirt with the flat shoes I was the only girl to do that though in my office. Didnt wear combats and didnt shave my legs even for PT. No one ever said anything really and doubt they even noticed. I think you do get away with a lot of the men in military who think your attractive and some females get away with a lot more than others so it isnt really fair. I have very long hair but didnt really wear my bun net every day just used to tie it up with a band. I never really thought about it at the time but it made my life a lot easier cause I have a tendency to be a bit laid back.

I didnt know you had to have special rules to be a wife and havent ever heard of that before.

"For general use, therefore, I like Porpoisefull's rule of thumb that you should wear what ever you feel comfortable and appropriate in, ditto level of grooming."

Me too although people then judge what i wear.

I have a hospital appt tomorrow which will involve wearing a gown. I am feeling a ridiculous urge to shave my legs. It will be all women. Who i dont know. But my legs are very hairy. Waaaaah

i wasn't really talking about appearance tbh - but in whatever employment the employed person has a set of expectations to fulfil depending on their role. i find it interesting that the military has an (unwritten) set of expectations for the spouse to fulfil, that's all. (i particularly like the huge tome that sets out expectations for the american army officer's wife - they even write it down! a fab book - fascinating and horrifying in equal measure...)

i had long hair for my entire time in the military. i spent much longer than dh every day making my appearance 'right' for work. yeah, he had to shave his face, but i spent my life in boots buying hair pins and bun nets. (as well as the usual shaving stuff - the joys of compulsory skirt wearing in my particular role) i had to wear heels too. would have been nice to throw on combats every day but it didn't come round that often.

interesting that you feel your own looks weren't made into a big deal. most of the women who worked for me were totally denigrated by their male peers, so it wasn't important how 'military' they looked - they were always going to be inferior in the eyes of the men anyway. sort of 'well, you aren't a real service person anyway, so it doesn't matter if you don't look like one'. really interesting dynamic.

madwoman - I think men have to do a lot more to conform in the military. They have to shave all their hair for training and shave everyday. My husband used to get in trouble as he has very dark hair and he used to get in trouble for supposedly having a 4 o clock shadow when he had shaved that morning. If I had to have bothered doing all that stuff I wouldnt of bothered joinin tbh I looked like I had been dragged through a hedge backwards most of the time I was in but it wasnt really made in to a big deal.

it could in my mind but i've had enough enconters to put me off forever.

I don't wear make up generally

I live in flats because they are comfy

I shave my legs/armpits because i dont like having hairy legs/armpits.

I wax my bikini line because i dont like it creeping out of my swimming costume

I tie my hair back with a band every day because its comfy

I dont wear perfume or strong deodarent but i do smell most days

My husband couldnt care less about any of these things

I thought

Oh, I was the only one who wore crimplene drawstring trousers

I do wonder how much anyone notices any of it anyway. I've been wearing contact lenses for the last month - I normally wear thick glasses 100% of the time. So far one person has noticed (and one other asked if I'd cut my hair differently, which I guess is sort of noticing).

I guess its a good thing that I got them for reasons other than vanity - but it did also make me wonder how drastically you would have to change your appearance for anyone to actually catch on.

For general use, therefore, I like Porpoisefull's rule of thumb that you should wear what ever you feel comfortable and appropriate in, ditto level of grooming.

in terms of expectations - not just appearance, but general wifedom etc.

How do you mean madwoman?

i like to look at this through the military expectations lens, as well, v. most interesting.

sorry ref my typos - preeing and procrate - you know what I meant

vintage - sure. it's about making the choice mindfully though. with an awareness of why/ how you make the decision, and acknowledging any external influences such as societal expectation. the decision is still yours, though.