Was Bristol Palin raped?

Crapola

I don't think sex when you are so drunk you don't remember it is automatically rape.

We can't possibly know if she was raped - the only people likely to know that are her and her boyfriend.

Lots of people aren't ready to lose their virginity when they do - doesn't mean it's rape. Lots regret it. Still isn't rape.

I would say, without knowing the facts as I wasn't there, that she may have had the upbringing that says if you're drunk and in bed with a bloke then you're asking for sex. I would think, given her mother is a gun toting idiot, that she wouldn't have any idea that she may have been too drunk to consent and therefore it could have been rape.

If the same situation happened to a 25yr old woman who had any idea about rape she may have other ideas about consent, ability to consent and whether or not she was raped. Expecting such consideration from a daughter of Sarah Palin is like asking Jeremy Clarkson about the environment.

She says that after their initial encounter, they decide to abstain until marriage. Obviously, later, she changes her mind, but it sounds like that at the point that she lost her virginity, she wasn't ready for sex.

Either way, don't have sex with drunk 15 year old girls who don't believe in sex before marriage and you're unlikely to be accused of rape. Simples.

She hasn't said she was raped, just that she can't remember the sex. Is it then automatically rape?

Dittany -

'what's been said' - yes, by some posters, other posters are debating it. We are all making judgements based on a mix of the facts, her story and our own opinions.

Please don't just attack.

LeggyBlonde, I think that's a bit disingenuous as an explanation TBH. How many people having drunken sex on any given night are going to be on their honeymoon, having just given a very public display of their commitment and love, and probably having talked about it and made private jokes and innuendos about what was going to happen from the point where they were sober right up to the point where they had sex. You'd both have made your intentions very clear to each other throughout the day, so I'd say that you did give informed consent, and because you showed no indication whatsoever of changing your mind in this case your new DH could rightly assume the consent you'd been giving him all day still stood by the time you reached the bedroom.

That's nowhere near comparable to the woman who's just had a date, or the woman who's having a drink with an ex-boyfriend or indeed a current boyfriend.

I see your point Karma, but they were in a relationship - what if they were both equally into it at the time? It was (surmising totally) presumably a two-way thing. Is it still his and only his responsibility to stop, knowing that if they continued, he could be technically raping her?

(she was 15 so it is statutory rape either way, but the consent issue is interesting)

The girl was 15? Isn't that rape anyway?

And stomach cramps, ie period pains, are a pretty normal reason to go one the pill.

Surely men should just err on the side of caution when having sex with drunk women and then they won't get accused of rape. Especially when they are having sex with a drunk 15 year old virgin who has been brought up in a culture of abstinence before marriage. Chances are she won't want it.

I don't think Bristol Palin is saying she was raped, Dittany. She appears to be saying that she didn't remember much about the night she had her first sexual experience when she was drunk. I think other people are speculating about whether having sex when you are drunk is always rape. And I do think that discussing an autobiography someone has written is not the same as 'always doubting a woman's story'.

Gosh! If one can't consent while drunk (as some posters are saying, 'more than tipsy'??) then the best night of my honeymoon was grounds for prosecution! Sooo much wine, so hazy at times, but wondefully disinhibited and definitely not rape! (Unless we're about to say marriage=consent which of course we're not).

If a woman's non-responsive or saying no then there's no consent and it's rape.

That doesn't mean every drunk woman is raped, even blind drunk, unless we criminalise all drunken nookie and make men responsible for both parties behaviour.

I don't think any of us can possibly know if she was raped or not. I have known people who don't seem all that drunk and yet the next day claim to have chunks of memory missing. Either they lose their memory easily or they are more drunk than they appear to be.
It's not for us to judge. If she thinks she was raped then that is very sad and for her to decide how to progress with the situation. Being accused of rape is very serious indeed and shouldn't be done by anyone who wasn't there to know what actually happened. A false accusation hurts real victims.

Anyway I'm not doubting her story, just debating that she was raped. She doesn't say she was raped, only that she doesn't remember it. I don't think that always = rape.

I don't want to be attacked dittany - I'm making a point.

Call me a rape apologist if it's easier than addressing my point. I'm not arguing in any way against identifying rape, just musing on the benefit of calling all drunken sex rape.

In fact I'd go as far as saying that calling sex which was drunkenly consensual 'rape' undermines the women who are actually raped whilst drunk.

Darlene - my situation was in relationships of months or more, not fuckbuddies (not that I'm judging at all!)

At that time I really enjoyed being disinhibited from alcohol and having wild sex. If I couldn't remember the next morning, I never questioned the consent.

If a woman is acting very provocatively and initiating sex, and visibly enjoying it, how can it be rape if she then doesn't remember it? Or even if she regrets it?

I'm not in any way a rape apologist btw, totally agree that a woman is never responsible in any way if she is raped.