Was Bristol Palin raped?

Yes, I know plenty of 15 yr olds who choose to be sexually active and put themselves on the pill (without calling it "stomach cramps") and that like to party and often drink. I'm not sure why you find this dubious, but maybe that's your issue, it certainly isn't mine.

Oh yes, she wanted to wait until they got married, but they both "relented."

Anyway, this, once again, has become fruitless. Clearly anyone that doesn't want to stand up and proclaim BRISTOL PALIN WAS RAPED is a rape-apologist non-feminist and fuck innocent until proven guilty, we'll just sling young Levi to the wolves.

Good plan.

Both sexes should take responsibility.
As i said, my 'first' was pissed as a fart and I have little memory. But dh says i came onto him pretty aggressively. There was no rape just because i cant remember.
This attitude of some on the thread is likely to get a lot of young men labelled 'rapists'.
I have taught both genders right and wrong and not to drink or take drugs because it impairs your judgement in all situations. What else can I do?

Hully - am hoping to have more children - a few health problems mean that conception/pregnancy is very unlikely (actually, think its now impossible, remind me to check!), which means that adoption is probably the route. Keep fingers crossed for me on that front even if we clash on this thread, will you?

For some reason, when people adopt, there is more demand its seems for little girl babies, so if I want to be open to a placement of either sex, its more likely I'll be adopting a boy. Maybe my views might change, but I really hope that I'd raise a boy to respect women and understand what constitutes shit behaviour.

Of course teens have sex when they are drunk, so did I, God knows I was no saint. In fact, I think I was drunk every time I had sex with my DH for the first month or so after meeting him. But I reallly do believe there is a difference between " a few drinks to get over the embarrasment" - dutch courage, so to speak, and blind drunk to the point you have no memory in the morning. And I hope I'll raise my son to respect the difference, and respect a woman's right to remain unmolested. Ditto my daughter (although to be fair, I've never yet met a man who can maintain an erection when drunk, so not quite sure there's risk there!)

Too right Hully. Of course i have drummed it into my sons as well as my daughters. Neither of my sons drink thank gawd. So their judgement wont be impaired and they wont make a drunken mistake and get accused of being rapists.
Ds1 is 18 and reading this thread.

There's a "have" missing

Boss - do you any sons? That isn't meant to be inflammatory, just that I think when one has (I have both genders), one becomes as equally concerned about both and keen to see both take responsibility for themselves and towards the opposite gender.

If the cause is protecting our female children from sexual abuse and assault, which to me is one of the main aims of feminism, then I fail to see how this cam possibly be damaging.

Teach our children the right way to behave, and stop making excuses for bad behaviour on the grounds that "its just what teen boys and girls do". Cos that's just a stinking great crock

Riveninside, I hope to God for my dd's sake that mothers teach their sons that its not OK to have sex with drunk women. I see that as the moral obligation of a mother, to teach our children the acceptable way to behave.

Fucking pissed-up girls isn't a good thing. It may be common. But that doesn't mean its good. Our daughtes are worth more than that, and, by fuck, so should our sons be.

Me too, Riven

But it's sad, because it's just so unhelpful to the cause.

Many women who are raped don't call it rape, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The point is, legally, its rape.

Agreeing with Hully. People are so desperate to call Levi a rapist. They were both pissed, she has never claimed rape, she says she doesnt really remember.

That sums up an awful lot of sexual encounters among camping teens. Hwck, it sums up mine. Pissed as a fart and barely any memory. It wasnt rape.
Im leaving the thread now and hope to god neither my daughters or my sons have some of you judging them one day.

To be honest, it's threads like this that keep me away from feminism. Bristol hasn't claimed rape, it sounds she didn't have a great first sexual experience, but it's sexist and unfair to paint Levi as a rapist, given the little of what we know.

Of course she said it once, its in the pre-released excerpt from her book. Or are you suggesting that the reports are making it all up and she never said anything about being too drunk to remember losing her virginity???

She may not have called it rape, she may not realise it was rape, but for all the reasons explained above, if she was too drunk to give proper consent, it was rape. Its really not that difficult.

No-one is saying he made her get drunk. Just that if she was drunk to the point that she wasn't capable of consent (and being so drunk that she can't remember anything suggests she was indeed that drunk), he shouldn't have had sex with her. Huge difference.

Once would be good.

She hasn't said it once, there's just you, deciding and saying it for her.

How often does she have to say it before you believe her, Hully? Three times, four times, what's the magic number?

the "doing" comment is that you are making Bristol a blank canvas on to which you are prohecting your own experiences and theories about rape. Anyone who doesn't do similarly "doesn't understand" rape. win-win for you.

Implying that he made her get drunk (she has no willpower/autonomy/decision-making capabilities/self-responsibility) and then raped her (she couldn't have wanted to be sexually active) does indeed imply she's stupid and gormless.

I know a hell of a lot of 15 yr old girls who choose to drink and have sex and own their experiences most happily, something that Bristol can't do publicly, even if she wants to.

1. Do we? Lots people have made comments that suggest they don't know about these things.

1. Has Bristol come out and said they misquoted her?

Can we separate out the two things?

1. We know about rape. Really, we do. We know about date rape, rohypnol, rape myths, consent etc etc etc

1. In the specific case of Bristol and Levi, we have no idea what happened and it is dangerous and unfair to make assumptions and accusations. All we have is a brief interview with Digital Spy (the renowned source of truth and justice) pushing Bristol's book.

I don't understand the last couple of comments. Rape is by definition an act of doing something to someone else.

Nobody has said that Bristol was stupid or gormless.