Was Bristol Palin raped?

I have very little time for the Palins as they and their views represent everything I find wrong and frightening about some American attitudes.

I agree, nobody is looking good in this scenario, and one little 2 year old is in the midst of it

Now, see, motorbikes, they ARE exciting

Nobody, including Mommy Dearest, comes out of it bedecked in roses.

Ah, no, Hully, my DH expects his DSs to watch motorracing with him which he reckons is not at all a stereotypically male past-time... .

Of course Levy did not get her pregnant on his own, but I still maintain he is a little shit as evidenced by his general behaviour: having sex with drunk underaged girl (whether it resulted in pregnancy or not), showing her little respect or kindness, his reaction to her pregnancy, his repeated infidelity, his now selling his 'story' of having been close to the Palins.
A Prince he is not....

slightly aghast at the idea that men want sons to play football with. Terribly sexist assumption.

"The little shit" did not get her pregnant.

She got pregnant later during the multiple instances of consensual sex. They both "got her pregnant".

Really, I think Bristol Palin is a bit of a distraction because none of us were there - thank goodness! -, there is the whole political angle to it and the reporting, even in her own book, will be skewed.

But it does open a wider question regarding rape and consent or lack of... very very difficult.

My now DH had to fight me off when we first met, not my finest hour, and he behaved impeccably. If he hadn't, it still would not have been rape IMO. I think calling that situation 'rape' does a disservice to victims of rape, whether they were violated by a stranger, their partner, with physical aggression or without.

I don't think it would have been rape either.

But she still couldn't remember in the morning.

Maybe that's what happened with Bristol Palin...

Maybe it wasn't.

But we'll never know so how can we judge?

I worry about the whole issue of consent wrt to sex.

My mother used to give me The Talk about how Boys Only Wanted One Thing repeatedly when I was nowhere near being sexually active (yes, I was a late starter), so it was quite irrelevant.
As a mother of 4 (little) boys I already wonder how to ensure that they internalise how important it is to respect any girl/woman they might be interested in and listen to her. OTOH, I don't want to scare them of having happy, enjoyable sexual relationships with somebody they are at least fond of.
There is a whole other thread in this (and this has been done before, I know), but I wish there was less pressure on girls and boys to 'perform' on a sexual level.

I also think there is a social construct that makes boys/men and girls/woman feel and behave differently after a drunken encounter: a girl is more likely to be embarrassed as 'good girls don't', whereas the boy is more likely to feel quite proud and manly . It is just not socially expected that a man would ever complain if he had been 'taken advantage' of.

reeling, I don't think so. Clearly your friend, whilst still very drunk, had the capacity to consent. She was able to make her own decisions. I think what is meant by reasonable people when they refer to 'too drunk to consent' is when people are unable to consent either way, perhaps because they are passing out drunk, or just slurring and unintelligible.

My mate came round here one evening.
We both got wankered.
DS1 and his GF gave her a lift home.

She told me the next day that she had rolled in,started an argument with her DH and gone to bed.This much she remembered.

Her DH also went to bed.

In the morning her DH told her that she had pestered him for ages to shag her..
He declined,not finding the prospect with a drunk very appealing.

She could not remember...and was totally embarrassed.

If he had shagged her would that have been rape?

I have lurked through the whole of this thread and as the mother of a DD and two DSs i have to say i 'm in agreement with hully.

With the greatest respect to Dittany who's opinions i also often agree with.

Women who go out 'on the pull' can be just as sexually agressive as men..i know because i've seen them in action.

It's a dangerous path to go down when we start taking away any element of responsibility for our own behaviour.

'Do you know what was unfair - the first time Bristol Palin had sex she was so drunk she didn't know what happened to her. And the little shit got her pregnant.'

Eh? I thought she was 15 when they first has sex and 17 when she got pregnant; the two events did not coincide. Unless I can't add up, which is possible.

@ 'sex in allotment' - I always thought sex al fresco was overrated

My greatgrandmother was married off aged 18 to a 45 year old business partner of her father's because it made good business sense. They had 2 children, he died when she was 28 leaving her a widow for 70 years until she died aged 98.
I never knew her, but their marriage was legal, I have no idea what she thought about it, but it just feels disgusting and abusive, in more ways than one. Was she raped?? - I don't know, and even a modern age of consent would not have protected her .

Dittany and Hully, kiss and make up, gawn!

Dittany, it's over the top to suggest that Hully is ok with older men preying on young girls (13, 14 yo.) who have no choice, when what I think she was saying was that she didn't particularly have a problem with a 16 year old having sex with a 15 year old if both were happy and the sex was consensual. You must be able to see the distinction and how you twisted her words.

Am also slightly gobsmacked that anyone has sex in an allotment - my allotment was full of stinging nettles and random bits of wire, would have been rather painful!

There's an interesting sub-point in this whole thing for me, which is Levi's reaction of hoping its a boy. The words he used are quite aggressive, am wondering whether that really is still a common feeling amongst men. And why, is it just a desire to have a mini-me to kick a ball around with, or something more, not sinister exactly, but not "nice" IFKWIM.

Maybe that's a whole other thread.

disagreement's fine, it's the turning my words into arrant nonsense and wanton slinging of personal insults that provokes the only possible response of mockery