Benevolent sexism - should men hold doors open?!

Well, it is annoying but I'd still say thanks and walk through. I think it's common politeness to hold a door for someone and do so for men and women alike.

Quite!

I can't believe how quick men have been to drop things like holding open doors, and giving up seats, all in the name of equality, and yet at the same time how slow they are to do eg their fair share of house work.

Yep, I knew you did, just wanted to make it super-obvious (because you said "slam in my face" and yours is most likely a female face). :)

Yes, Trillian, that's what I meant, hence the use of "person" :)

Unfortunately we can't choose between door-holding-and-raping and door-slamming-but-no-rape (I know which I'd pick)

I'd like to think a world without rape would be more polite and considerate in general, and so everyone would hold the door for the person behind them :)

Some of my male friends will not go through if I open the door for them. Frankly I do find this rude, and makes me wonder WHY. Am gradually training them by being prepared to wait for as long as it takes :o

If someone was going through a door in front of me and let it slam in my face I would think they were rude (or perhaps unobservant!)

And if the person in front was a woman and the person whose face the door shut in was a man this would be equally true.

Opening a door for someone, fine. Making a big point of it because the person's a woman, annoying. And perilously close to those arseholes who offer to 'guide you out' of a tricky parking space, or worse still, ask if you want them to do it for you.

Smashinghairday, you are missing the point. It's not that every individual man has particular sexist reasons for holding a door open. I'm sure most don't even think about it in a way that "women are weak and couldn't manage a door" or "women deserve to be put on a pedestal and therefore shouldn't have to open doors by themselves". Most men just do it because they were taught to when they were growing up or are just aware that it's "the polite thing to do".

Whereas I was always taught that if you're going through a door first, or you see someone with their hands full or pushing a wheelchair/pram etc, it's polite to hold it open for them. Why should it be based on gender?

If someone was going through a door in front of me and let it slam in my face I would think they were rude (or perhaps unobservant!). If there was a man walking behind me and he didn't immediately leap to open the door for me before I got to it I wouldn't think he was rude at all - I probably wouldn't even notice.

Should we rename it?

Not benevolent sexism, but seemingly harmless but actually still sexist sexism.

If someone makes a deliberate effort to open a door for me (rather than letting whoever gets there first open the door and hold it) I generally feel a bit confused. Should I say "thank you"? I know they were trying to be polite but I didn't particularly need or want it.

There was another article about this piece of research in the Daily Mail (know you're enemy and all that). Took pretty much the same stance as the Telegraph one.

I think both articles have purposely missed the point of the research (which is actually more possible to see in the Daily Mail article). From what I can see, the participants in the study had to record all their interactions with someone of the opposite gender over a period of days. Then they had to rank how sexist they felt that interaction was. The point was that many of them were in total at the amount of sexism they experienced on a daily basis. It took writing it down to see through the 'benevolent' cloak and realise that it all has a cumulative effect.

But of course that wouldn't be a good interpretation to make if you want to have a pop at feminists.

I have a male friend who goes so far as to walk on the outside of the pavement whenever we walk anywhere, presumably to protect my petticoats from dirty water and allow unfettered access to his sword-arm should ruffians accost us.

I felt like I'd really won a victory when I managed to get him to go through a door before me. We now have equal door-opening rights; whoever gets there first, opens it.

I love the fact that she's mistaken one article in an academic journal for the entirety of modern feminism.

Holding doors open etc out of politeness is fine. Holding a door open for me because I am a woman, regardless of the common sense of the situation (e.g. I don't know which way we are going once through the door, I am at the door ahead of you, you are walking with a stick, you are carrying heavy things) is annoying.

Basically it's a bit like the way that having your weight talked about, even if in a supposedly flattering way ("you've lost weight!") makes you lose confidence because it focusses attention on your weight. Having something done for me because I'm a woman serves to point out my femaleness in a completely unnecessary way. If I asked my colleague "as a man, what do you think of X?" every time I spoke to him, it would be similar. Gender isn't usually relevant, why remind me of it every time we go through a door?

well what happened to me yesterday was quite horrible.
i was in this building and a woman was trying to explain where i should be going.
a man then rushed up and loudly said"ill take her there"!
then as quick as lightening he held my hand!!!he actually had hes fingers right in mine aswell.![i jumped out of my skin-this was tottally unexpected]
i flung him off and he was put out by this.
somehow i dont think he would of done this to a fella.

You're quite right Smashing, opening a door for someone is manners. So why would you only be polite on the basis of what genitalia someone has

The idea that men open doors for women because women are above them is delightful. So let's ignore the pay gap, lack of representation and violence against women, because in the door stakes we've done it sisters!

You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with a made-up person in your head. I've not said I don't like doors opened for me.

I've said that having a door opened for me because of my gender is not about respect for me as an individual, and in fact now you're saying it's simple manners, which is not 'deference and respect', is it? So which is it, simple manners (which should apply to everyone irrespective of their gender), or 'deference and respect' due to me only because of my membership in a particular group?

I did have money on a response like you have given me, tortoise .

It's about manners, opening a door for someone and allowing them to go first. Simple manners. I like it and appreciate even if you are quite happy to have a door slam in your face.

And after almost fifty years on the throne, I think you'll find the queen is very much respected for who she is as an individual by millions.

I don't want to be treated as above or beneath someone just because I'm female, thanks anyway smashing. And the Queen's a bit of a bad example, isn't she? She's not respected for who she is as an individual, but for what she represents; a figurehead, a symbol, and above all "ours". All of which means that she leads a very circumscribed life.

Of course 'benevolent sexism' matters, it's part of the continuum. I don't want to be constantly reminded that I live in a sexist culture.

Of course men should hold doors open for women, as they should for other men, and as women should for both men and women. Who are these men that open doors for women but slam them in the face of men? They sound fucking rude to me.

It reminds me of a paper I was reading yesterday, where the author had given the references to female academics first names when referring to them in the text to 'highlight the special contribution of women'. Fuck off. I don't need to be patronised and have my special little lady thoughts highlighted all speshially. If he wants to honour the contributions of female academics, treat them like you treat academics. People who aren't idiots, use first and second names of all academics, which makes sure a female voice without being so bloody patronising. (Can anyone tell what riled me yesterday )

Of course it's not as big a deal as other things, but my pretty little lady brain is quite capable of challenging several thing all at once! Remarkable I know. I never get why people switch their observance of sexism on and off like that.