Take responsiblity for how you act and what you wear

I didn't read the link no - sorry

No, I'm on your track primalscream.

Rape is inexcusable, that's a given.

But what we wear tells the world something about us whether we like it or not. The trick is to ensure what you wear is saying what you want it to say.

If you are happy to have lots of attention ( from both sexes, as it happens) then wearing very short, tight revealing clothes is absolutely great. But you WILL get looks/leers and attention because that is the flawed society we live in. Of COURSE you should not be raped, let's not put words into mouths but you WILL get attention. You can't then be outraged that men are looking at your arse if it's barely covered by thin tight fabric and wiggling about above very high heels.

Exactly the same as women looking/leering at a well toned an in a tight t shirt or topless.

In fact, you should see the attention the farrier gets when he comes to our yard form twenty women!

And Elephant, I agree...

I'm Replying to the thread title and what's been written in the op;
There is no mention of rape in either and rape is not what I'm talking about

not the link then, where Nick Freeman talks about how he managed to heroically stop himself from raping someone? Or where he REGULARLY talks about rape throughout the article?

What did you think? We'd all taken this off a a wild tangent?

If people burgled your house after you left the window open, they would be burglars wouldn't they, and no-one would accept the "I thought she had too much stuff and left the window open hoping someone would take it" excuse.

They would go to prison, quite rightly. Just because people commit crimes, it doesn't make it somehow the fault of the victims.

SAF - think you're right. Reminds me of this poem by notorious bastard Ted Hughes. "She had too much so with a smile you
took some."

I'm Replying to the thread title and what's been written in the op;
There is no mention of rape in either and rape is not what I'm talking about ( I said rape had nothing to do with the way a woman dresses earlier )
I'm obviously on a completely different track here so im sorry about that.

swallowedAfly

Your post does read horrifically, but unfortunately it feels like the truth.

Primal, you do realise you are spouting a load of misogynistic, rape apologist claptrap?

But because you're talking about male attention, not rape, I guess it's ok

Nothing has happened to me - But we have to be responsible in the way we act - I should be able to leave my window open without getting burgled, I should be able to do lots of things but I can't. It's not an ideal world is it.
And if you dress in a certain way you will get more male attention. that could be welcomed or not - men don't always know.

Ooh, thanks for clarifying, MisterDarsey.

Joaninha, that sounds a reasonably sensible idea. We could call it something radical like... ooh... Consent? Reckon we're onto a winner here, y'know.

re false rape accusations - According to the FBI more people falsely report their own deaths than falsely report sexual assault

(ref. Shira Tarrant's book 'Men & feminism')

Primal Scream

"And it's naive to expect all males apart from your Dh/DP/Nigel from accounts to avert their eyes when you're dressed provocatively"

Please would you define "provocatively"?

Because in some countries showing your hair or your wrists is dressing "provocatively". In some places letting your boobs hang out isn't provocative at all, just natural and easy access for the little munchers.

So, instead of having lots of different rules for women to adhere to , why don't we have an universal principle for men to follow (which most already do), I dunno, something like "Please ask first"!!

Riveninside - yeah, it's as if men are these poor creatures that can't control their urges - it's insulting to men in the extreme!

There wasa bunch of letters in the paper to this effect. Men are visually aroused, blah de blah, biological etc etc
So wearing little, they cant help it and while most men dont rape, some do so if you arouse them ad nauseum
Grrrr

Define male attention. You posts are becoming suprisingly ambiguous, and it would be ever so easy for someone to use your defences of "male attention" as defences for rape.

Oh.

Wait a fucking minute.

THEY ALREADY DO!

Primalscream

So what if she does do it to attract men, she still has a right to say no. I go shopping to buy food, it doesn't mean I then have to buy everything in the shop.

What has happened to you to warp your view so much?

I'm not talking about rape - I'm talking about male 'attention'

By that scenario could all women wearing a wedding ring be seen as being "asking for it"? I mean, clearly they are indicating their consent to sex by indicating that they are married. And if we've already established that once women are "up for it" in sexual terms, it doesn't matter WHO they are consenting to having sex with . . . .

I posted a reasonable and succinct response about the use of rape myths to justify criminal behaviour on the Evening Standard website. Somewhat surprisingly it wasn't published