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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Fear" of men

232 replies

ComradeJing · 10/06/2011 02:38

I have a question that relates to two recent threads so apologies for thread about a thread.

Allhailtheaubergine (hope you don't mind - it's your thread I'm referring to) said that she was worried when she walked on the beach and when a man came between her and her exit she became nervous.

Another poster in AIBU said she was unhappy about a male nursery worker taking her daughter to the bathroom.

The OP in AIBU was completely torn to bits over this. Allhail was given support and most people (including myself though I didn't post) agreed that they would have felt scared and validated her response.

Now my question is why is one response valid and rational and the other one not? Is it because one is a person in a job and the other could be "anybody?" I would imagine you're more likely to be attacked by someone in a job (ie taxi driver, gas man, builder or someone else you would invite into your home) than just some stranger off the street but I could well be wrong.

I suppose I was thinking that if one is a feminist issue then the other one must be too as they are both about a fear of men and what men can do to women.

OP posts:
dittany · 13/06/2011 23:46

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Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:37

Out of 27 of his older works, 5 have breasts, two of these are women over 50, possibly three. Of new painting several of the models are 40+ and none are what I would call conventional women, or conventially appreciated (i.e. large) breasts. what are you on?

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:31

Huh?

dittany · 13/06/2011 23:30

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Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:27

Well by all accounts it was her leading the particular sex experiment, but I don't really want to go into that - its just sad that he was pegged as a potential paedophile when he manifestly isn't. As for Internet policy, it would certainly usually allow art and magazine articles, they have both a common sense policy over personal use, and a bloody great Fine Art department!!

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:24

Well that is a bit snide - its about the female form not sordid wank fodder - he has done a beautiful one of a friend of his who has had a masectomy. Its awful that his work has been criticised in this way - he has some really beautiful works, Drop, Witness, Dead of Night, Lifeline are all immediate emotional reactions for me. He does male nudes as well, but a lot of his work is about female strength in seemingly fragile situations its quite beautiful.

AyeRobot · 13/06/2011 23:20

Has he checked if he has legal cover with any insurance he has to see if they fund employment cases? Though if he broke his employer's Internet Acceptable Use policy, then tough.

And heh at the gay nazi fetish study group. You couldn't make it up, could you?

dittany · 13/06/2011 23:18

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dittany · 13/06/2011 23:17

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Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:12

He had no money, sadly, he was not paid very much A friend of mine has offered to lend some money so we are hoping.

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:11

sorry astride

AyeRobot · 13/06/2011 23:11

Has he instructed a lawyer?

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:10

Painting is here: www.neilmoore.co.uk/new_paintings_4.html called Astride.

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:08

oh and also it was only the one article - and he read it for less than 3 mins.

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:07

for the record he was embarrassed about the AS article - I know why he was reading it though - he had just hooked up with a new GF - I bet they were going to try it that night and he was just checking up (bless...)

Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 23:04

BTW a few years ago I went out with a guy who used to work out a lot at home, and I would quite often go round and there would be holes in the wall and there was a permanently cracked window in the kitchen. I talked to my friends who said that he obviously had rage issues. How mortified was I when after lots of paranoid questioning he said 'oh hang on, this is the 'am I a psycho?' set of questions isn't it. Turned out the crack in the window in the kitchen was from a cast iron pan that he kept standing up in the drainer only for it to fall when the washing machine was on, and his work-out technique involved throwing dumbells from one hand to the other whislt dropping to his knees and then standing up - the dents were from when he missed the catch! -- mind you working out when you are a bit drunk is a bit Mel Gibson..

dittany · 13/06/2011 23:02

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Missingfriendsandsad · 13/06/2011 22:59

Well I think that my judgement that my friend is a nice guy is obviously part of the information I am using! What is crazy is that at the same employer there is a gay nazi fetish study group sanctioned by the University, and there is more explicit imagery published on their website than that he is accused of, and there are many theses published with nudity, self-mutilation, sex, fetishes (eg I found one with 'erotic defecation' discussed) etc etc. all the examples there are published by female academics. I do think there is a fear of maleness that is becoming quite stifling I find myself constantly surprised at the 'don't go there', 'don't go in alone', 'make sure the door is open' statements that happen - I feel so disheartened when I see friends of mine, especially the guy mentioned above fell really ashamed about almost anything they do.

sunshineandbooks · 13/06/2011 21:23

HerBex that's very true. Until I ended up in a DV relationship, I had never encountered any sexual harassment or experienced an assault, and I had never come across anything I perceived as sexist or hostile attitude. My own father was a good man, as are most of the men in my (now very small) family. However, once I became a 'victim' my perceptions changed radically.

I got out and I'm not troubled by aggressive men any more, including my XP because I have gone to great lengths to ensure that he cannot abuse me or our DC or even just make a nuisance of himself. However, now that I've got my 'eye' in I am genuinely shocked at the number of men I come across who are either horribly abusive or simply just chauvinistic and controlling. Worse still are the master manipulators whose partners don't even realise what's being done to them (I only recognise it because I know what I am looking for having taken great pains to educate myself enough to not fall into an unequal relationship again in the future).

No, most men are not like this. But an alarmingly large minority are and FWIW I see signs that the current generation of lads in their late teens seem to be worse than my own generation (mid 30s), although the ones that are not are truly lovely.

HerBeX · 13/06/2011 21:10

Yes I agree that personal experience is very important in forming attitudes.

ilovedora27 · 13/06/2011 20:59

Agree with madwomans post upthread.

I also think if you were brought up with a dad who wasnt a good man, or had experiences of bad men in childhood then you will grow up and repeat these patterns and it will seem like there are loads of 'bad' men. However if you are brought up with experiences the other way round it will seem like there are hardly any 'bad' men as you never/rarely encounter them ime.

ilovedora27 · 13/06/2011 20:54

I just dont feel scared by it though. Here its normal for girls/women to walk round on their own at night 3/4am, mostly very skimpily dressed. I just live by no point in worrying something could happen, you could get run over by a car but you arent going to stop doing stuff are you? I do agree its more likely to be someone you know tbh.

HerBeX · 13/06/2011 20:48

It's not that small a minority.

1 in 4 women get sexually assaulted or raped in their life. Sexual offenders are repeat offenders, but it's not all the same tiny group of very busy guys...

Nice to pretend it's the odd bad apple though, it's comforting and reassuring...

ilovedora27 · 13/06/2011 20:44

I agree with other posters who say they wouldnt be scared. I am used to walking round at night, often alone in hot pants, mini skirts and even bikini tops before. I have never once felt intimidated or scared tbh.

Also I wouldnt in anyway be scared if a man changed my DDs nappy. I work with children and have accounted this attitude before and think its quite prejudiced tbh. If you are in a decent nursery then there would be no chance to be alone with child long enough to touch them/take pics and in all the nurseries I have worked in the bathroom is accessible so everyone can see what is going on in there.

I dont understand a fear of men at all, and have never had a reason to be scared of men. Men are all different, and I dont feel scare of 50% of the population just because a small minority are not very nice.

dittany · 13/06/2011 20:36

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