Pain in childbirth - can anyone help me with my thinking around this?

StreamedTreacle was just coming on to write the same thing...it appears to be a fairly blunt choice between fairly archaic medication which may hinder the birth process or 'hardcore natural'.

Mmmm well neither please, lots of technological advances everywhere could you please sort out some decent pain relief for childbirth...

Some of you seem to have been blessed with nice cons (male and female). Mine (male) wasn't. Would not listen to any of the medical grounds for my having an ELCS, just stubbornly insisted I wasn't having one and told me there was no point being referred to another cons as they would not agree either.

In the event, I was referred to a (fem) consultant who agreed to an ELCS. She wasn't totally happy with it, but realised that I had thought everything through. Although it was on my notes that my previous c/b had been v.traumatic, no-one took any notice. I feel I was treated unsympathetically because I did not give in to the pressure to terminate (baby had med issues). Actually unsympathetic is a total understatement - in many ways I feel I was treated brutally with less compassion/humanity than I ever imagined was possible in such a context. Me, bitter, Nooooooo.........

I agree that on a grass roots level men seem to be quite pro the idea of pain relief, I was talking about published literature etc.

Interestingly, however, now that women are slowly reclaiming the domain of childbirth, obstetricians are coming out in their droves to claim that unassisted childbirth is dangerous.

Interesting...

We had a really interesting discussion around this subject during our east london feminists meeting recently... one thing that we picked up on was the way that women's reproductive health seems to have a really low priority in medicine generally. While medicine in general is always moving on, things like contraception and pain relief in birth don't really seem to be improving all that fast. For childbirth, for example, your choices are either gas and air or epidural, without anything much inbetween. I don't know whether it's because the medical/research establishment generally put a low value on women's health, or because it's hard to make money out of that sort of thing...

That sounds perfectly sane to me.. is there a way to achieve that though?

Gas and Air lol,

I agree HopeForthe Best, most men prefer their partners/wives to have epidurals. I remember loling at a man on the net who was horrified that a woman had been "doing natural childbirth" in the bed next to his wife

well the labour room was invaded by men after they killed off all the midwives during the witchcrazes... the first men to assist births ended up killing a lot of women because they would come straight from cutting up corpses to "assist" the birthing woman without washing their hands...
Then they invented all manners of unecessary procedures that cause a lot of damage to women.
ONe example I can think of was the trend to take the baby away from the mother straight away after the birth during the twentieth century, failing to realise that when the baby breastfeeds it contract the womb and brings it down to its original size thereby preventing heamorradge . These bloody men didn't have a clue (still don't) and though they were saving women when they were the cause of the problems in the first place!!

Well my point is, I suppose, that given the horrendous context behind men entering the labour rooms it's perfectly natural for a woman to want to reject that and take the pain instead.

Personally I would like to know WTF men are doing there at all when women give birth. WHat sort of kicks are these doctors getting out of having control over birthing women? I think it should be an all-female domain. This is just common sense and given the disgusting way male Ob/gyns have behaved over the years. Anyway... I'm sure a lot of women would take the pain over the patriarchy given the choice.

That sounds perfectly sane to me.. is there a way to achieve that though?

I was wary of epidurals the idea of feeling nothing was scary

I wanted to experience it aswell as not be in huge amounts of pain that probably sounds mad lol.

I always thought it wasn't that women wanted to avoid the pain, but that they felt the endurance of pain was (or were persuaded that this was) less important than the potential side effects of the pain relief itself.

So for epidurals, not being able to feel when to push, restricted mobility etc. For others (pethedine?) the worry of it making the baby sleepy.

I'm also not sure I agree about men 'dictating' - my consultants, both male and female, have been equally keen that the birth plan is my choice. My DH is pro pain relief and pro sections, because he wants me to be able to avoid any pain he wouldn't himself tolerate.

Sorry, not usually argumentative! Just wanted to offer another point of view.

But childbirth has always been led by and seen as a female thing? I think the pressure on women to have "natural births" comes from other women - not from men??

I disagree. Most midwives are female, yes, but most obstetricians are male.
The term 'natural childbirth' was coined by a man and its most famous supporters are male.

The fact that women have taken up the baton of forcing it down other women's throats simply means to my mind that they have become complicit with male domination in childbirth - the same way some women support the idea that a woman should be subservient to her husband.

That is not to say that any individual woman's choice to go pain free should not be respected.

Apparently there is one religion I think it might be Scientology where they are made to give birth in silence, horrific stuff

Did you feel pressured to go without PF? I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience.

"when it comes to pain and childbirth is to stop listening to men dictating what is right or wrong about it"

I agree. I have asked for a female consultant with regards my pregnancy. I don't know whether I'll get better advice but I would think that I would have a better shot at it from someone who has either given birth or has the potential too. And tbh I get to listen to men all day long, I'd just prefer to hear a woman's view about a process that only women go through, given the option.

I think from a feminist perspective it is all down to not having your informed choices taken away or overruled as if they don't matter. It is your body and it is happening to you. The negativity regarding pain relief is a very patriarchal construct IMO.

the thing that really stands out to me when it comes to pain and childbirth is to stop listening to men dictating what is right or wrong about it. But childbirth has always been led by and seen as a female thing? I think the pressure on women to have "natural births" comes from other women - not from men??

"the thing that really stands out to me when it comes to pain and childbirth is to stop listening to men dictating what is right or wrong about it. "

Yes.

I'm like you in that I not particularly well-read on the side of feminist theory, but the thing that really stands out to me when it comes to pain and childbirth is to stop listening to men dictating what is right or wrong about it.

I think there is a school of thought that criticises the patriarchy for taking control over childbirth, medicalising it and intervening too much.I have quite a lot of sympathy with that view. I did have pain relief during my labour, but this was partly because I was forced to lie on my back on a bed so that they could monitor me. Every time I sat up and over to relieve the pain (which worked), the monitors would stop working so I had to lie back down again. I think if I'd been allowed to walk about and move my own body I would have needed a lot less pain relief. I would also have kept a lot more dignity.

However, I personally don't subscribe to the idea that pain relief is bad. You wouldn't have a broken leg fixed without pain relief so why go through the agony that can be childbirth when you don't have to? The risk to the baby is small and outweighed by the needs of the mother. All of life is a balancing of risks and this one is an easy one IMO.

Childbirth for humans is more painful than for most animals because of the way we evolved. The human head is too big for the birth canal. This is also the reason human babies are so vulnerable when born and why the first 3 months are often referred to as the fourth trimester - because the head is already too big by 9 months, the baby has to be born but it still has to do quite a lot of development that in most animals would happen inside the womb. I get quite irate when I hear arguments that women should be able to cope with childbirth because all the other animal species manage it without pain relief. Most of the proponents I've come across for natural births at all costs are male.

Ultimately, I think it has to be down to each individual woman and for her to know that it's ok to change her mind.