Is this a feminist issue?

Your opinion is that you're not scared?

Riiight...

What about your friends/family, wrongdecade? Do you know other women who feel scared/try to avoid being alone on the streets/in quiet places at night?

And yes, I'm going for the record of how many of these ///// I can use in one post.

I'm not generally scared either, and used to laugh in the face of people who suggested I not go home by myself.

So what? What does that add to the discussion on this thread.

TBF I didn't think wrongdecade was saying anyone else was wrong etc, she was just contributing her experience.

thankyou finally I see alot of people contributing experiences on here

Well, no. But then we all post things sometimes that other people might not understand the point of. I know I do :o

becasue I'm allowed to post my opinion

I don't need someones permission to post my opinion

what was the point of someones post deliberaltely twisitng what I had said, I notice your not challenging that, so its okay to lie and twist what somebody has said aslong as its what you want to hear?

I don;t understand the point of the post though.

TBF I didn't think wrongdecade was saying anyone else was wrong etc, she was just contributing her experience.

"Its becasue I have empathy I said that I'm trying to put myself in someones sheos who may be percieved badly just for being there. "

So your first port of call on the empathy front is men, who might accidentally scare women. Rather than empathising with women, who might be scared, not to mention all the ones who have actually been attacked.

Excellent posts, SQ.

And HerBeX: "his worry is simply that this strange woman might think he might attack her; her worry is that he might attack her" - EXACTLY. How are we supposed to twist ourselves up into this doublethink? How are we supposed to "be sensible" and follow police advice and negotiate our lives knowing that if we break the rules e.g. here then we will be at least partly blamed if someone decides to hurt us AND simultaneously not insult poor men by being worried that they might hurt us?

wrongdecade what was the point of your post them.

You aren't scared. Great. What was the point if you writing that then?

What is your point?

A bloke once started masturbating at me on the tube when we were the only two people on the carriage.

I didn't feel scared, I felt annoyed and angry.

So what? It didn't make any difference to what happened, whether I was scared or angry. He still did it.

if I had been 12 at the time, would it have been wrong of me to feel scared?

Why do people insist that women are stupid to feel scared when in fact there is plenty to be scared of - the papers and television tell us so all the time, and for most women their personal experience tells them so as well.

How about the media stop treating women as prey, and men stop harrassing assaulting and raping women?

Then we might get somewhere grin

I agree with that obviously what about my posts implied that men should carry on abusing women?
I'm sick of explaining to people who clearly incapable of not twisitng

Here we go.

So just because one person has never felt scared (Never??? Never ever ever ever???) that means that any women who do feel scared are being SILLY and need to stop it immediately as the poor men don't like it.

Have you ever heard of empathy?

thats a ridiculous overraction to what I said, by saying 'I must be alien' was making it clear I know its wierd and unusual. And I didn't say 'poor men' again more twisitng, Its becasue I have empathy I said that I'm trying to put myself in someones sheos who may be percieved badly just for being there.

When did I say women were being silly?
again more lies.

How about the media stop treating women as prey, and men stop harrassing assaulting and raping women?

Then we might get somewhere

Here we go.

So just because one person has never felt scared (Never??? Never ever ever ever???) that means that any women who do feel scared are being SILLY and need to stop it immediately as the poor men don't like it.

Have you ever heard of empathy?

alleys

norvern' slang lol

What are gennels?

I must be alien I have never ever felt scared and my way home invgolves a lot of pitch black gennels.

Men aren't scared to be where a woman is walking alone. I have never met a man who said he changed his route home because he was worried he might scare someone. I have met men who crossed the road if there was a lone woman, but none who did more than that.

Meanwhile freedom of movement for many women is highly restricted. Not by law, or a curfew, but by much more subtle and insidious means.

And even the ones who refuse to give into the fear and do go around at night by themselves, usually feel at least a little apprehensive about it.

Of course it's not good.

However while women are presented as "prey" in most popular television crime dramas, in highly disturbing adverts for cabs, and other media.

And while women are talked about in "prey" terms between people ("what did she expect, look what she was wearing" type stuff).

And while men do actually do stuff to women on the streets all the time (at the minor and moderate end of the scale). And of course really bad stuff does happen as well, if you read the news websites you will read at least 1 terrible story a day.

And women know that they are unlikely to get much response from the police if anything bar a really super-serious event.

And the police even issue formal advice saying that women shouldn't be out alone after dark.

Then women aren't going to stop being scared.

Well, it breeds mistrust between the sexes and unhappiness.

But the question isn't what does it breed, it's what causes this and how do we stop it.

And the answer isn't one that many people are receptive to, because it's a feminist one.

but its not good though is it?

what does it breed? where women are scared to go out alone and men are scared to be where a woman is walking alone?

Funnily enough I have been furiously posting on the Reg Bailey Webchat thread and this precise issue has arisen, albeit in slightly different form - the demonisation of teenage boys. The two are inextricably connected IMO.

Well of course he shouldn't have to be worried about just being there. But neither should she. And I suggest to you, that her worry is worse than his; his worry is simply that this strange woman might think he might attack her; her worry is that he might attack her. I know which worry I'd prefer and it ain't the latter.