The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

FWIW, I'm registered in an interdisciplinary department, and I think SGM is right that the hierarchy doesn't like it - I don't think it's any accident that this department is also far, far more feminist and female-friendly than the very, very strictly-defined single-discipline department I've just left.

I think - repeating myself, sorry - it's back to binaries again. Patriarchy likes binaries; they're good tools of exclusion. So when people come along and say they'd like to think across the boundaries, that is very threatening.

Just an anecdote, but I find it fascinating how often the same boundaries that are being enforced today are also being used to dismiss the studying of women. So, for example, in my area a lot of books written for women and taught by women are seen as being partly in the discipline of Art History, partly in Religious Studies and partly in English Lit. - so when I tried to study them, I was restricted because I was told there was no-one would could supervise me adequately since I worked in a strict English Lit. department. This was put forwards as a fact, with no suggestion also has a pretty huge and damaging effect on the study of these books, which are so important to understanding women in history. People were saying it was just an arbitrary boundary issue, because I needed help from people studying other disciplines - but the result was to push women's books into an area where they're harder to study.

SAF, to take it away from the academic applications for a moment, when somebody thinks in that fused way, I consider it to be a kind of spiritual thinking called Gnostic. I'll try and find a link later, but am not going to start googling now because I am working as well as posting.

What nonsense - I picked her up on her agreement with Tyr that it's 'sexist' and 'bigoted' to dismiss MRAs out of hand. The most cursory reading of a MRA blog will reveal that it's not.

FGS, painting my house isn't flouncing.

Garlicbutter-
[feminism helps us to resensidise.............................]
yep-i tottally agree

charitygirl - totally unfounded attack on garlicbutter there, thanks for that I for one value her input immensely and have enjoyed reading her comments on this thread.

Aha! Threatening to flounce! VG.

If you think Try was well-intentioned, then I'm extremely happy to agree to differ.

Milly, I've got tons of experience and knowledge about that!! Do you read the long abuse threads in Relationships? I think you'll find plenty of folks who understand the processes, and have read the books.

Charity, I wouldn't shout "BNP" whenever anybody said something I disagreed with. Which is the equivalent of what happens here. It's ridiculous playground name-calling.

Different if Tyr's posts were all about menz rights (whatever MRA consider them to be) but they're not. He's querying some of the views expressed.

If we're veering back towards "Don't post if you don't agree" it's time I left again.

Come to think of it, it is anyway! DIY calls again :(

I also think SAF that you did kind of turn this thread around (I think it was you posting) by pointing out why women might take hold of various symbols from thousands or hundred years ago, because something is lacking for women in contemporary culture. It might not be possible to know much about those symbols, but that doesn't mean people can't hold on them as a valuable part of their identity.

That point comes from your style of thinking, and really needed to be said, or we'd have missed that perspective and kept on fighting over facts.

Cross post.

IME, feminism helps to 'resensitise' us, Sparky :) Once we remember that we don't have to put up with it, we can make small steps to change things.

Tyr, we haven't been taking about the witch trials in particular for ages on this thread or the film. We've been talking much more generally about the processes of how prejudices arise. It sounds like you might actually know something about that, but you've chosen to derail instead of sharing that knowledge.

I saw a programme years ago called something like seven (or maybe it was twelve) steps to tyranny. It went through the steps a society goes through to get to positions of extreme persecution of a group. That was the kind of thing I thought might be useful to discuss, but I have little knowledge of it myself.

Oh garlicbutter - the fact that you would agree with Tyr about that..well, it just makes you look as ignorant as him. Do you know anything about MRAs (he admitted he didn't)? Do some basic googling before you start agreeing that it is 'bigoted' to mock MRAs. Is is bigoted to mock the BNP?

And, as for tyr's implication that MRA donlt use 'feminist' or 'WRA' as an insult...again, basic googling helps when you come across a term with which you are unfamiliar. Otherwise, youve got no-one else to blame when you make yourself look this stupid.

I like your posts, SAF :) Your style of meta-thinking is essential to any discussions on big issues, I feel. And it needs the complements of science, history and statistics that other posters can offer.