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Original poster

The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

985 replies

sakura · 28/05/2011 01:15

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#at=380 youtube]]

ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

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dittany · 01/06/2011 16:48

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Tyr · 01/06/2011 16:36

"I'd want to discuss why men as a group are so set on inflicting extreme violence towards women. I don't think there is another male animal on earth that treats the female of its species the way men as a group treat women as a group. When you look at it from that point of view, it's extraordinary"

So you're not even limiting it to priests, lawyers, inquisitors or even just groups of men in power anymore; it's all of them in one homogenised mass.
Try removing the word "men" and substitute "jew," "black," "immigrant" and see how it reads.
But you're right; when you look at it from that point of view, it's extraordinary.

motherinferior · 01/06/2011 16:35

Well, it would be a completely different film. Not the same one remade with a few errata twiddled with.

MooncupGoddess · 01/06/2011 16:32

'I'd want to discuss why men as a group are so set on inflicting extreme violence towards women.'

Why do you think that is, dittany? It certainly is unusual; I read once that most mammal species are incapable of successful rape, as the female has to be willing for sex to occur. Humans are an exception here.

Male mallards gang-rape female ones in a very unpleasant way... but other birds, e.g. swans, mate for life and mourn when their mate dies. Fascinating.

dittany · 01/06/2011 16:27

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motherinferior · 01/06/2011 16:22

Er...actually, they took issue with the main dates cited in the film. I can't, quite honestly, see what the problem is with saying 'ah, yes, OK, let us re-address this issue with a bit of truth and accuracy in it'. We don't actually have to say 'ah but it has to be defended'. Which is why most people on this thread have moved on to discuss other stuff, with a tactful veil drawn over the crashing inaccuracies outlined by quite a few posters above.

dittany · 01/06/2011 16:22

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Tyr · 01/06/2011 16:20

MillyR,

I had thought of using the German example but went for something closer to home.
It is true that the forging of a distinct identity need not lead to hatred and discrimination; however, it is an inherent danger in the forging and one that all of us need to be aware of on a personal level.
The example you give of Odinism is interesting (to me, for personal reasons) and I was alluding to that earlier when I referred to race hate groups picking bits of history (or mythology in this case) to suit their agenda.
I have come across them and, with the occasional wily exception, they tend to be dim and humourless. Unfortunately, they compensate for their lack of magical acumen by getting publicity and tarring everyone with the same brush

dittany · 01/06/2011 16:19

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MooncupGoddess · 01/06/2011 16:18

I haven't watched the film, my laptop is too rubbish. But I will try to do so at some point.

Glad you're not flouncing, Milly!

dittany · 01/06/2011 16:16

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swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 16:13

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MillyR · 01/06/2011 16:12

MCG, I'm not going away (well, I am, but not in a flounce). I just have to do some work. I'll come back later.

motherinferior · 01/06/2011 16:11

It wasn't 'undermining nitpicking'. LRD and others were saying 'This film has got everything wrong, actually'. And various posters cited sources that are more accurate about the period. And then the conversation moved on like many threads do.

MooncupGoddess · 01/06/2011 16:10

But what should we discuss? Should we just have a black page of mourning for the millions of women who have suffered at men's hands, and no Feminism section at all??

The flipside of Milly's discussion is, what structures reduce men's chances to harm women. Isn't that worth discussing?

dittany · 01/06/2011 16:05

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MooncupGoddess · 01/06/2011 15:59

Hi dittany,

I am fairly new to this section, so forgive me if this has been covered before. But, how would you like to discuss "men's persecution, torture and murder of women"? We can't just list atrocities - that would get very miserable very quickly and not take us any further.

Surely the sort of questions MillyR is discussing (don't go MillyR - your posts are amazingly thoughtful and interesting, to me anyway) - that is, why and how women and other groups are persecuted more in some periods/countries than others - are very pertinent?

Similarly, within a broad movement like feminism there will always be debates about how best to take forward that movement, or about disagreements within it (such as the value of mythology as opposed to data-driven historical analysis, say). Isn't that basically a good thing, even though some of us will inevitably disagree with the exact positions of other posters?

dittany · 01/06/2011 15:43

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 15:41

Right, I'm off to the library - SAF, Milly, SGM and everyone else, I've really enjoyed reading what you've been saying and I hope we can get back to it, if not on this thread then perhaps elsewhere. Take care. Smile

dittany · 01/06/2011 15:39

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swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 15:38

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MillyR · 01/06/2011 15:37

I apologise that I keep crossposting. I'll come back later.

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 15:36

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dittany · 01/06/2011 15:36

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swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 15:36

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