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Original poster

The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

985 replies

sakura · 28/05/2011 01:15

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#at=380 youtube]]

ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

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Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:32

Is it not? I got most of my books from the local Blackwells, off the shelf.
You might as well say that the majority of feminist literature isn't in the common domain, considering how hard it is to find on the high street.
Most witches in this country were hanged rather than burned. It was mostly fear, scapegoating and envy that lead to gendercide.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:32

I did. I spent a term on it for A-level.

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:31

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Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:29

Is this a useful website?
I have no idea about its scholarship, as is often the case with the internet.
www.gendercide.org/case_witchhunts.html

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:28

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StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:27

And how can you do "in-depth" in ten minutes?

Yes, "witches" were burned. That is true.

However, this film is essentially a religious tract. I have no problem with any religion producing material to promote itself - that is freedom of conscience and speech which I support.

This is not a historical documentary though.

Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:26

I learnt about the witch persecutions when studying English at A level and degree level, sometimes as an element of a text and sometimes as necessary for background information to set something in context.

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:25

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MooncupGoddess · 30/05/2011 11:25

My point was about wider reactions to Holocaust historiography, not about discussions on MN.

If an inadequate/incorrect factual basis is used to support a documentary's assertions, then that undermines its core arguments, because the entire enterprise starts looking very slipshod. As you say, it is unarguable that women have been historically oppressed in all sorts of horrible ways - so why not do the research properly and put together a killer documentary based on proper historical fact and argument? Anything else is doing women's history a disservice.

Goblinchild · 30/05/2011 11:24

'All those books/films you mentioned, for example, I've never heard of any of them.'

I have, and read them and watched them and many of the publications by Venetia Newall who is one of this country's foremost scholars on witchcraft. I've also read Malleus Maleficarum.
I hadn't heard of a lot of the feminist writers mentioned here until I read other people's posts. Doesn't mean I should be dismissive of them surely?

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:23

It was during my history A-level.

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:21

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StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 30/05/2011 11:20

For a start, it uses the term "celts" in relation to British tribes - wrong.

dittany · 30/05/2011 11:20

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Original poster
sakura · 30/05/2011 11:19

misterDarsey
Are you serious? Your average jo on the street knows about the witchcrazes? I think you must live in a bubble of academics . I've only thought about it myself after ElephantsandMiasmas mentioned it all on MN last year.

TO say that people know about the persecution of witches... it's just such a LIE.

All those books/films you mentioned, for example, I've never heard of any of them.

WHy wasn't I taught about the witchcrazes in school during history lessons?

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Original poster
sakura · 30/05/2011 11:15

"That's a big part of it for me too, that people make up stuff all the time. One of the ways patriarchy is maintained is by making up stuff that makes sense in patriarchy, and giving it grand claims."

This is spot on, Alice

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dittany · 30/05/2011 11:10

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MisterDarsey · 30/05/2011 11:10

There have been plenty of popular books & films about the persecution of witches, I'm amazed anyone would be unaware of this.

The most famous example is the Salem witch trials. These are the subject of The Crucible by Arthur Miller, one of the most famous modern plays. The trials also feature in popular culture including episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sabrina the Teenage Witch and even the Simpsons.

Then you have famous films like Witchfinder General and Ken Russel's The Devils, and all the films about Joan of Arc who was also burned as a witch.

There is no argument about whether these events happened, the only question is why. Does this video help to answer that question or not?

MooncupGoddess · 30/05/2011 10:49

'people don't quibble about scholarship focusing on Jews.'

Well, they do to some extent - there are various groups representing gay people/romanies/mentally disabled people etc who get politely but understandably frustrated that the Holocaust is seen by so many as a purely Jewish-targeted extermination programme.

Haven't seen this documentary so can't comment on that, but I would be furious if someone put together a historically illiterate documentary about the Holocaust, because it is so important and getting the facts right matters. So I think it's entirely understandable to feel irritated by a factually inaccurate portrayal of women's history for the same reason.

dittany · 30/05/2011 10:07

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AliceWorld · 30/05/2011 09:53

That's a big part of it for me too, that people make up stuff all the time. One of the ways patriarchy is maintained is by making up stuff that makes sense in patriarchy, and giving it grand claims.

dittany · 30/05/2011 09:02

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dittany · 30/05/2011 08:54

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dittany · 30/05/2011 08:52

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Original poster
sakura · 30/05/2011 02:12

Okay> I've learned my lesson. I won't post a video unless I've had a proper look at it first.
TBH I was just mesmerized by that dancing lady on the roof. She was hypnotic.

Perhaps she cast a spell on me.

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