The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

I've no idea if they are any good, which is why I asked if anyone recognised the names of some of the women writing from a feminist perspective. They could be offering the wrong sort for all I know.

Anyway, I object to the idea that "womens history" is some kind of seperate, specialist subject. It is not. Fifty percent of all history is ours anyway. I don't want to be sidelined.

Stuck, I do agree with sakura that history is often taught in a sexist way. It shouldn't be necessary to study a course, or a term, of 'women's history' or 'gender studies', imo; that just ghettoizes women. And it'd be good if mainstream documentaries on history discussed women more - apart from Elizabeth I and the wives of Henry VIII, which seem to get overkill!

(Btw, discussion is moving fast but I'm going to order some of those books you liked to Goblin, thanks very much.)

Does that happen?

I studied the burning times at A level and took a course in gender and archaeology at university. There is plenty of good history concerning women.

This was ten years ago, btw.

I do agree with you, sakura, that it's awful to see bad but 'establishment' science or history passed off as factual too (someone else made that point on the first page here, as well). But I don't think anyone's arguing we should hold feminists to a higher standard, just we have a stake in it when women make themselves look idiots. When David Starkey (for example) makes a fool of himself, I just smile and mock.

' Somehow the witchcraze doesn't receive that same level of understanding. But then women aren't human so our persecution is of no interest to anybody, except a few feminists.'

Also possibly because it is beyond living memory, around 300 years ago.
It is no longer a threat to women in this country, and has become a curiosity and entertainment
The current witchcraft issues in this countryinvolve another culture and children of both sexes, as well as people with albinism. But we hear little of that either.

I suppose most books aren't part of popular culture now either.

Better no documentary than one as bad as that. All it does is set up women, women historians, and feminists as fools.

But it's crap.

No history is better than bad history.

But sakura, isn't the average Jane going to look a right idiot if she repeats anything from that film? That's what worries me. It's good as propaganda to make women angry, or to show this religion as an appealing one for women, or as a strengthening myth maybe, but it presents itself as if it were factual.

I think it is very wrong to make something like this, because if someone took it on trust, they would be mocked by anyone who knew a little history. That's just setting up any eager would-be feminist for a mocking. Not very sisterly! I agree with goblinchild their motives appear to have been religious, which may be ok, but it does do a disservice to feminism.

In other words, a perfectly good argument can be rendered impotent if you build it on sand.

This, is sand.

Peoper history, is stone.

What about this booklist?
Do you recognise any of the names who seem to be taking a feminist approach to the subject?
departments.kings.edu/womens_history/witch/witchbib.html

sakura

Surely you've heard of Buffy the vampire slayer at least? You dont have to be in an academic bubble to know about that. There are also references to Salem in Harry Potter and other childrens books. As for learning it at school, it depends which school you went to. If you're saying it should be on the national curriculum I would agree.

dittany

Salem was an English colony at the time & the witch persecutions there were obviously an extension of what was going on in Europe. Fair point about the old films, however the latest film about Joan of Arc was made as recently as 1999

And to return to my main point - Does this video help to answer the question of why it all happened? That is the important issue here.

In this case, yes it is Dittany.

The proper study of history should be amoral - this "documentary" is so loaded as to be laughable in the context of anything other than the religious sphere..

Just because something appears to agree with you, does not nesscarily mean that you should accept it at face value. That's what history teaches us.

dittany, please read what I say instead of attacking straw men.

I find it insulting that the people who made this programme felt the need to make up fictional 'strong women' and make up a narrative about men taking their power away. It's a fairytale. Why not tell the truth? There are real, historical, why not study them? It is incredibly insulting to a millenium of women, to whitewash their experiences and existence in favour of telling a pretty story.

I find people who misrepresent women's oppression in history offensive and insulting; the makers of this film must have been aware they were lying, the errors are too absurd. Anyone who wants to call themself a feminist surely minds about this?

Fair enough: bits of that film were absolutely beautiful, I know. But to present it as facts is insulting.

I did a module during my 16th century literature studies. Why are we arguing about it?
I just thought Sakura was being a bit dismissive of someone's post because she hadn't heard of any of the things mentions, implying that they thus were irrelevant.