The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

Exactly.

Sorry, the shouting was honestly not at you - just annoyance that anyone would think this is feminist. It's daft maybe, but I really care about women not being shut and lied about.

No, but it's pretending to be feminist. It is what the historicaly illiterate will take for feminist history - giving the real thing a bad name.

Stuck, not yelling at you, but I have to get this out:

IT IS NOT FEMINIST!

It's a load of bollocks that's harmful to feminism and insulting to real women.

This really is crackers, doesn't matter if it's crap, aslong as it's feminist it's ok...

And referring to a millenium of history as 'minutiae' again. Words fail.

Don't you think the women who lived them deserve to be treated as real people? Or should we just steamroller over them and their lives so we can propagandize in the service, not even of feminism, but of religion?

Well said LRD.

This is religious polemic - it is not history.

And yes Dittany, I studied it as an actual topic.

Yes, all those things are true, along with the thousands of other women who lived in fear in case they were accused.

Ok, put it this way.

How about if I went around telling people that some Jews in around 1600, back when King George II was King of Kent, were killed. About twenty billion of them, it was shocking - and that's the Holocaust.

Would that not be immensely, crashingly offensive?

In exactly the same way, so is this. The fact that Witch Trials (like the Holocaust) did indeed happen makes it worse to lie about it, not better.

I don't think that people are doubting the events, and I think that them being more widely taught is a very good idea. It's more that the facts need to be accurate and the reasoning sound if it isn't to be dismissed as a topic by many others.
Dittany, you are fantastic at presenting an argument possibly because you are focused and are meticulous about accuracy both in quoting and in being quoted. If you were merely shouty and passionate about the big picture then your words would not get the same level of respect that they command.
Whether that's fair or not, I don't know.

We're going round in circles here. Dittany, read the thread and watch the video, then come back and talk. You're making no sense right now.

It is studied at GCSE history level as part of the Crime and Punishment module, which is an option on some boards.

No, Dittany, I cross posted with you.

But this entire thread is so ridiculous - I mean Creationist levels of idiocy, that I am not going to continue on it.

Ah, cross-post, Milly!

Btw, I thought what you said earlier about it being offensive to treat non-European cultures as they did, was very true.

Goblin, true, but they were talking about Trier. Although they weren't sure if it was in France or Germany.

I don't see how anyone can watch that without feeling angry. Getting something so wrong implies that it's not important - a thousand years here, a thousand years there, it's all in the past so why get it right. Imagine the screams of protest if something said that about the Holocaust. But no, because the subject is the persecution of women, it doesn't matter enough to get it right.

I'm sorrry, but this is nothing to do with academia at all - you cannot just write off someone pointing out very basic historical facts as academic nitpicking. Of course it would be incredibly offensive to victims of the holocaust to make out that it happened at a totally different time or culture. The same applies to the treatment of women- we have to get at least the basic facts correct. To make out that the Roman Empire treat women well is an outrageous assertion.

This is about very basic historical facts. Durham Cathedral had already started being built before this supposed introduction of Christianity. It is open to the public and you can go and look around it. The Lindisfarne Gospels are often out on display in the British Museum. The Christian writing of Bede have a whole museum dedicated to them. Likewise, there is a huge amount about the witch trials out on display in museums, and there are museums dedicated to it. There is a witch trial museum about 10 miles away from me and I do not even live in a major witch trial area of the country. There is also a council funded guide and footpath area around where our witch trials happened. It is frequently taught in schools at GCSE
and before.

There has not been a cover up of the Witch Trials. It is one of the most well known parts of History. If people cannot be bothered to go and visit museums, which are often free, that is their problem. But you cannot make out that it is some anti-feminist cover up when it is simply ignorance that could easily be avoided by any individual in the UK participating more in the resources that are provided for them.

Well, I suppose Scandinavia held out until the first millenium, so perhaps there was a corner that didn't convert until 1132.

Oh come on, Dittany, you cannot possible believe that mis-dating Christianity in Europe by a millenium is 'nitpicking'!

I do recognize a couple of names - Kieckhefe, Kittridge, Purkiss, jump out, but the first two aren't feminists that I know of. DP might be, I'm not sure how she self-identifies. Still worth a look I think.