The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

I just get furious at the idea that women are so unimportant, and their oppression is so unimportant, that a documentary can pretend a thousand years of history didn't happen, and not think they've lost anything. Imagine how you'd feel if someone did that about us.

Read the thread, dittany, you know which thousand years.

You're still arguing that getting a date wrong by a thousand years doesn't matter, dittany?

Does it also not matter if rapists lie and are believed? Does it not matter if we lie to little girls and tell them they've never had it so good and they just can't expect anything but to be second best? Or is it only lies about women in the past that you're absolutely fine with?

'I've never seen the same level of passion, anger and contempt coming from some of the people on this thread at actual sexism and oppression and harm to women.'

That's odd dittany because I can remember a lot of people on this thread being consumed with passion, anger and contempt about the DSK scenario and Ken Clarke's offensive remarks re rape. And that was only two weeks ago!

Most of us posting on this thread value proper historical research and analysis. You don't seem to, but it would be nice if you at least made an effort to understand our views in this respect. This is not an ant-feminist position!

dittany, this is actual sexism and oppression we're talking about. This is lying about a thousand years of women's history and pretending it never existed. This is putting the message forward that you can lie about women's history because it doesn't matter.

Unlike you, I have no interest in apologetics for people who lie about women. You might want to think about why you do.

stuck - I'm sure you're right about it being 'like any religion'.

i have no idea what everyones talking about-so my post might be really stupid.
but....
im not too sure that these days witchcraft is just seen as a curiousity and entertainment-i think that if ss thought a woman was practicing witchcraft they would soon be round to her home[if she had children]
also-wasnt this used sometime ago to remove some children from theyre parents?

It's conveying bollox.

The passion is directed at the crapness of it, we KNOW that the burning times happened. We don't need a religious polemic to get the point across. It's bloody patronising to suggest otherwise.

I've met pagans who were good people and pagans who were bad people. I'm met genuinely feminist pagans and (like you) a rather creepy man who misused it. No different to any religion.

You're right, it makes feminist history look silly. Not helpful.

dittany - you just suggested 'women doing feminism things gets up your nose'?! Really?

Do you really want to defend this crap, that is lying about women and promoting the message that women's oppression in history isn't important enough to get right, and tell me I'm not a good feminist?

Based on this thread, it's quite clear you're not thinking as a feminist at all, or you would be angry about lies spread about women's oppression.

Ok, so this is a revelation to you. Just because you didn't know about it, does not mean that there is anti-feminist conspiracy to cover it up.

Bad history, makes you look foolish. This is bad history. Everybody here with any historical skill is telling you this, you can insist otherwise until you are blue in the face, but it still will be bad history.

Really? Not James VI and his witchcraft obsession? I'm 80% certain it was in the O grade syllabus in the late 1980s.

(Sorry, that was to stuck at 12.35)

That might well be. It's also the kind of thing that makes people snigger at the idea of women's history or feminist historians.

I don't know much about paganism, but I know a couple who claim to be pagans, and if they are representative, then it is not a religion remotely good for women. He's a predatory creep who goes for vulnerable young women. So, as a side point, I do wonder exactly what kind of religion that film was promoting. I also found it interesting they seemed to feel the need for a Catholic priest to come along and talk approvingly about the lady who was a witch - not sure any religion that promotes itself via the approval of Catholic priests is one I'd expect to be good to women. But I don't like religious propaganda dressed up as history anyway.

It does not have a flaw, it is a flaw.

It doesn't know it's arse from it's elbow so why on earth are you so attached to it?

This might be a good place to start if you're interested in finding out more about the situation in Scotland.

I know, this sort of twaddle makes me angry too.

It's the kind of crap which leads young girls to say they aren't feminists - simply to avoid association with this sort of complete and utter dross.

I don't know if it still is, but certainly when I was at school (in Scotland) the witch trials were taught at secondary school (O grade I think) as part of Scottish history. I can't ever remember not knowing about that particularly horrific part of my country's history.

I doubt there's a person in Scotland over the age of about 10 who doesn't know something about it through local knowledge (many the names of people who died during that period are still known locally), books, exhibitions, songs, folk tales.