The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

The thing is in those days both women and men were oppressed by the rich and powerful. People were slaves and beaten by owners etc. In the 17th and 18th century people were hanged for stealing a loaf of bread. There weren't many human rights then.

But there were male and female healers and herbalists, and I think there were more female healers. People were very superstitious in those days and they believed in the evil eye and being cursed etc. and every now and then they would persecute healers who they thought may have cursed them or who had powers. But it doesn't seem to have been as systematic as it was in teh Middle Ages under the Church. Why all of a sudden did it take on such epic proportions in teh Middle Ages? I think they wanted to establish their hegemony and frighten teh people into obeying their will.

swallowed - the anger is because, no, in my opinion people do not have the right to falsify the truth in the service of their own beliefs, whether that's pretending the world was created in 7 days against all evidence, or whether it's re-dating the coming of Christianity by a thousand years. It's insulting to real people whose lives you whitewash over.

I found it really offensive that their version of history pretends some amazing women (Hild of Whitby's been mentioned) just ... couldn't have existed. Because it makes a better story.

swallowed - what on earth do you mean that abrahamic religions don't see the feminine in the divine? What about the huge medieval tradition of Christ the Mother? The Pelican feeding her young?

Yes, the Christians removed a lot of the feminine, but they kept some in teh form of Mary etc. Healing can be carried out at teh shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes etc., so the feminine principle is used, but only one sanctioned by the church. Women healers and wise women had existed since the beginning of time, but at a certain point in history, there does seem to have been a concerted attempt by the church, in particular, to stamp out any opposition to their female healing principle.

Does anybody know, if Catholics nowadays travel on pilgrimage to be healed by holy women, by the laying on of hands etc. Are there female saints who still perform miracles? I don't know much about Mother Teresa, but are any claims made that she had these powers?

swallowed - This film was conflating worship of Sulis with their presentation of witches as 'strong women' with special power. It wasn't subtle. They were making out that in pre-Christian culture women had special traditions, and that witches later drew on and preserved these traditions. They were saying that their neo-pagan religion was based in a pre-Christian tradition.

If they were trying to say that, in this pre-Christian culture women were also persecuted and oppressed, they did a rotten job of it!

thankyou Aliceworld.
oh it is moving isnt it.

The Greek and Roman pagan religions did also worship goddesses. People did make offerings and say prayers to female deities. Women were priestesses in temples and the Delphic Oracle was female. Athens was named after Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom. The Christians had to win the ordinary people over by making saints that took the place of some of these female deities.

It does seem like the Church at some point wanted a monopoly on the spiritual and that lies behind some of the witch hunts.

Ever been to this place in London Very moving

(PS not read the whole website, so don't shoot me if there is anything dodge, just mentioning the place)

ha-i could sort out my incontanance problem out all in one day-
id go and piss on the lot.

'I hope that LRD will recognise that nobody actually argued that pre-christian societies venerated women, including the film. In fact (evil pagan) Starhawk pointed out that the woman-hatred of patriarchy had been going on for at least 5000 years.

What the film says was that female divinity and worship of goddesses still existed in pre christian society.'

So, they worshipped women goddesses but didn't worship women goddesses? Or something?

Glad to see you're still making plenty of sense there.

i know a old church
and in a bit of unconcercrated ground there is a grave of a woman.
on the headstone is her name and age ect-it also states she was a prostitute and a witch[but from what i remember doesnt use the word witch
another name]
and at the top of the gravestone its carved with a scull and bones.
occassionally i used to leave flowers with her.
very old grave.
ive never seen a man buried like this.