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Original poster

The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

985 replies

sakura · 28/05/2011 01:15

[[

#at=380 youtube]]

ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

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dittany · 02/06/2011 00:38

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MillyR · 02/06/2011 00:31

Tyr, yes, but ultimately in any situation, there is a line you do not cross in your treatment of others. I rarely feel that on MN that line is crossed - I've only seen it happen to one feminist poster, and she hasn't been on this thread.

swallowedAfly · 02/06/2011 00:29

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dittany · 02/06/2011 00:29

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Tyr · 02/06/2011 00:20

Er, I've been out all night so missed this, "I called Tyr an MRA which he could probably report me for."

"He" hasn't reported it, nor would "he", if it bothers you. Still think it revealing that the term would be used as an insult. The answer to that might shed some light on how prejudice arises. Similarly, the way some of you have turned on others. If the anger was allowed to fester in isolation, rather than open debate, what kind of group would have bonded around it? If that group was in a position to silence dissent and had a vested interest in doing so, what kind of behaviours might have emerged?
It seems to me that the answers to some of the questions posed can be seen in everyday situations, even an exchange of posts on an internet forum if you set aside any assumption that cruelty to women, or men, is the sole preserve of men in power.

dittany · 02/06/2011 00:19

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dittany · 02/06/2011 00:16

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swallowedAfly · 02/06/2011 00:13

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dittany · 02/06/2011 00:04

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dittany · 02/06/2011 00:03

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:46

Agree! And I think that's just dovetailed very neatly with dittany's thread about the value of giving birth/bringing up children.

On that note ....

Goodnight! Smile

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 23:43

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:39

Makes sense.

Sorry, I am really interested but I think I must go to bed now - good talking to you. And I do think it is important to get to the bottom of this as to why the patriarchy happened and how we can pull it to pieces.

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 23:38

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:37

That makes a lot of sense SAF. Actually I think the idea of fathers 'owning' children is really problematic, because there's always the potential for that paranoia that the children might not genetically be 'theirs'.

Mind you, I don't know if that paranoia would properly be something caused by misogyny in the first place - it seems it must be, too, so maybe its a circular thing.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:35

Milly - ok, will have a think about that one - some time I would like to hear the explanation, too (but probably not now, I'm falling asleep). Thanks.

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 23:34

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MillyR · 01/06/2011 23:34

I agree about the reason, but if the original reason still exists, there are ways we could address the imbalance.

Must go.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:34

SAF - me too re. the politics.

MillyR · 01/06/2011 23:33

SAF, yes I'd rather talk to Robert Jensen than Palin.

LRD, I think it kicked off with the invention of agriculture - that was the start of the imbalance, but haven't time to explain why right now.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:33

Cross-posted again. Yes, see what you're saying Milly. But I think - I really hope - we're unpicking fear that's developed, that's been constructed, not that's natural. That's the problem to me with a 'root cause' - I don't think there can ever be a root cause to misogyny that's rational.

Sorry, I'm not saying this too well, I'm sleepy! What I'd worry about is, finding a 'reason' for misogyny that might look as if we're saying 'oh, ultimately it's not the patriarchy at fault, it's because x happened'. It sounds to me a bit like GB's 'accidental patriarchy' idea, which (no disrespect to GB), I don't buy.

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 23:30

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LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/06/2011 23:29

I wonder if it might be guilt - at some point the scale tipped in men's favour as they started discriminating against women. And they felt guilty, and clamped down harder on women, and so on further and further? I want to think that could be an explanation because I want to think (can't prove) misogyny must have started with a small imbalance - it's not a natural starting-point imo, and it's certainly something self-reinforcing, that would have snowballed into a bigger and bigger force very fast.

MillyR · 01/06/2011 23:29

I (maybe) think you can decide to not bother understanding someone's irrational fear if they are a tiny minority not really disturbing anyone, but if it takes hold over a whole society then you do have to unpick that pathway to irrationality. You have to get at the root cause to properly challenge it, or you just get bogged down in its manifestations forever.

swallowedAfly · 01/06/2011 23:29

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