I'm posting this on here because I hope you'll agree with me

"Crikey, what's wrong with that? Do you think she should walk around hairy then? How will she ever get a boyfriend if she has hairy legs/armpits. Don't think there are many males around who LIKE hairy women."

Oh dear oh dear. I don't know where to start!

Yes, a language thing certainly. I tend to think sad is more akin to melancholic and see upset as being a state of some distress.

Fair enough. I think it's probably not a big thing - I'd say sad and upset mean pretty much the same, so it may be a language thing.

Marion, just wondering, is your DSD ok now? Did you manage to chat to her about it/why she was mortified?

I find it strange rather than "wrong". I just don't understand, "disappointed" I would understand but "upset" seems a bit emotive? She may well feel it's sad that women are expected to shave body hair and that's her prerogative of course, but even feeling sad isn't the same as being upset. I was struck by the fact that she mentioned her own reaction before her DSD's. If she had said, "DSD was mortified and I was so upset for her" I could have understood too but... Ah well, just me probably.

Is there something wrong with being upset your DSD got a razor for her birthday?

I can see two excellent reasons to be upset, personally - firstly, you might be upset the girl's mother didn't get her a very exciting gift, and secondly, you might be upset if you feel it's a sad that women are expected to shave natural body hair. Not saying that's necessarily the OP's position, but if it were, what's wrong with that?

The thing that doesn't sit quite right with me from the OP is that she says "This has upset me" before she mentions her DSD's reaction. The language she uses in the second paragraph also seems to suggest to me that she is rather disapproving of women who de-fuzz. Of course this could be simply poor communication on the part of the OP or poor interpretation on mine.

I can understand the DSD being "mortified" if it was something she wanted and had maybe even asked her mother for and feared SM's reaction given that she had opened it in front of her. I can understand if she saw it as a judgement from her mother that she has unacceptably hairy legs, especially if she craves her mother's approval. What I don't understand is, if she is happy with/unconcerned about the state of her leg hair, if, like most teenagers, her mother's opinion is of no real importance to her, why she would be "mortified" that her mother sent her a Ladyshave; angry, terribly disappointed, yes, but mortified?

Oops, sorry!

As you were.

Nah LRD, not Morse land

My mum bought me a ladyshave for my birthday when I was about the same age (over 15 years ago) She bought it because she was fed up of me nicking hers, so she already knew I was shaving my legs. It had never occured to me about shaving pubes at that age tbh.

I was mortified too, because a) it was really embarrassing to open in front of my dad and to have to tell people what I got for my birthday when they asked, and b) it's a crap present. If you are shaving, it's kind of an essential item. the only reason I hadn't bought my own was because I didn't have any money.

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a ladyshave is?

next we'll have someone come on here saying that delipidated women are to blame if they're raped, because they obviously only do it to entice all those poor menz

'If you think political equality is a feminist issue then, sorry, but I think you are barking!'

we'll have to agree to disagree then, because I think you're barking if you think it's not.
and I think it is barking to set one's sights so low as to think that removing formal barriers and leaving the rest in place is adequate and that anything more makes you an extremist.

I don't think some older women realise how far there is still to go.

She does say her DSD was 'mortified', actually. Though I accept that's the OP's interpretation and could perhaps be mistaken. Still, she must have reacted negatively in some way to give the OP that impression.

as i read it, the OP was the one who was upset, not the step daughter.

Ahem. Though, no doubt, your 1990s fabulousity was extra special.

(Not doing much to combat the creepy image, am I? Best have a quick bunfight.)

That was 1990, though. If memory serves, it wasn't hard to look fabulous in 1990, compared with the average.

(Btw, feel free to ignore this as I may be both wrong and spectacularly creepy-stalkeresque, but do you and I live in the same town? With Lewis and Morse and all? If so, you've surely seen them all in their student-y get up all down Cornmarket of an evening ... and somehow, the loveliest outfit just doesn't appeal to me so much when I've seen it being puked down.)

hot pants and knee-socks with little bows ...

Ooooohhhh - I wore something along those lines (over knee socks though) circa 1990. I looked fabulous. Possibly

It seems the girl was upset though, mrsravel. I think it's a bit different from you (an adult) getting a crappy present - at 15 she's still young enough to feel hurt quite easily by things you as an adult can put to the side.

I remember feeling absolutely awful when my mum got me shampoo for my birthday when I was a teen - I wouldn't care at all now but for some reason at the time it seemed terrible.

but if the girl is a feminist, equates that with not shaving, and her mother who doesn't live with her and therefore doesn't understand her very well, buys her a ladyshave, what does it matter? how is it cause for major upset? my mum bought me a vile jumper in the wrong size last christmas which suggests she thinks i have absolutely no taste and am 2 stone fatter than I am... should i be mortified and offended?

I agree with LRD - if we want men to treat women well when they are adults then we need to counteract the "boys can't play with that because it's for girls" attitude when they are young. The sereotyped attitudes and divison of interests are all part of the same problem.

frantic i agree

That's really depressing for your sister frantic.

I do think some things have got better ... but bloody hell, you'd hope so, wouldn't you?! What's a shame is they haven't got much better.

I don't see why a feminist couldn't be angry both about the social inequality in politics, and the sexism? Both kinds of prejudice are propping up the same privileged men, I think.

Is part of the problem that the DD is an individualor indeed a feminist and her mother one of those twatty women who can't bear non-conforming and is constatnly pressuring the DD to be more 'girly'?

Well, when my sister joined a bank in 1976 she wasn't allowed to take the banking exams, even if she paid for them herself as she was only 17 and "bound to be leaving to get married and have children" Older women, with children, who had gone back to work, were allowed to do them if they were still under 30 and they paid their own fees. Young men coming into the bank however could do them any time they liked and could apply to have their fees paid for them!

That's just one example of exactly how bad it was! I haven't got time for more just now as I must run and catch a train in about 15mins but I don't think some of the younger women today truly realise just how far we have come in the last 30-40 years.

As to objectifying women. That, I am afraid is human nature (or rather men's nature) rather than societies' nurture and I'd as soon try to nail a jelly to the ceiling as enter a fight to try and put a stop to it!

As to political equality, there are many people, in this country at least, who are disadvantaged politically and they are not all women by any means. It is far easier, at the moment, to enter politics if you are a female Oxbridge graduate than it is for a state educated man, even in the Labour party! If you think political equality is a feminist issue then, sorry, but I think you are barking!

Ohh, I'm not mad keen on that look Jenai. It's very trendy with the students round here, or alternatively hot pants and knee-socks with little bows ... I think they look oddly like toddlers.

I am sure you could pull it off and look spiffing, though.

This feminist doesn't wear hot pants. Not anymore

I might consider wearing some with opaque tights though.