Has anybody seen this about the salesmen's orgy?

oops

Oh for goodness sake

Nope.

You're to scary. Well not you Proles. Obviously.

If any of you very eloquent clever women would like to post on my thread re this on In the News you'd be very welcome. There's a bloke on there who could do with being educated. I wouldn't even know where to begin. Seriously.

Thank you

This whole thing does my head in so many different ways. And I thought I was used to reading about the sicko acts the patriarchy allows to be carried out against women.

And Mollie - don't go. I assumed you were (indirectly) quoting from southeastastra's "they wanted to be there" post.

Can I just point out that although Munich Re have had their name bandied all over the press and this thread, this happened a few years before Munich took over the company in question.

It's an appalling stain on the insurance industry, and international / German business culture in general, but Munich Re as a whole really shouldn't be taking specific blame.

I don't know if a UK company would dare to. I'm pretty sure some would want to.

My experience of Germany (which is only Berlin) is that prostitutes are very visible. On more than one occasion I have been walking down a street that doesn't appear at all 'red lighty' and there have been prostituted women up and down the street. The women are dressed in sicko fantasy gear.

I made a group of friends leave a bar because I couldn't bear to sit there and see some very young looking women waiting for a john.

Perhaps a general acceptance of prostitution has turned some of the male population into the sort of knobhead who things paying to sexually abuse women is even more acceptable than it is in the UK?

I don't know but it is an interesting question.

Pendeen the company in question were German. They could quite as easily have been British, American, French, Swiss. We're not so different.
Even if the company in question were from a country well known for terrible attitudes towards women (not naming any, but I think you all know what I mean) I'd still not think "at least WE would never do this." We could do this. British men still frequent brothels and British men still head over to places like Budapest to take advantage of the sex industry there.

Totally agree with Sybil. I've had some comments I've made ripped to pieces on here, but on reflection I've learned by having comments challenged and it's made me more aware of what I say.

I still write stupid things when I'm not paying attention though.

Does anyone think that a British company would dare do this?

No doubt this will backfire on the company and hopefully lots of some people will take their business elsewhere.

Ach Molly don't take it personally. As sybil says (jolly well I might add) we try to be precise about language and the way we express ourselves here in a way that is different to a non feminist section and we give each other a hard time constantly. I bet you'd like it here once you got used to it.

It isn't about attacking or judging posters - it's about challenging patriarchal things we all take for granted. Sybil said it much better!

How nasty :(

If it had been organised by a private "social club" at the company, that would be bad enough, but in effect this company excludes women, gay men, and any man who isn't a scumbag, from its upper echelons.

Thank you OP, hadn't heard of this. It will help when I have to explain to people why I "still feel the need to go on about feminism".

Oh my word that has actually made me feel queasy.

Thank you Beachcomber.

That is indeed my point. I don't believe the "happy hooker" can exist because I can't imagine how any woman could be unaffected by having her body used in such a way.

No doubt I have worded that wrongly too.

I will leave before Dittany makes her judgement.

Which is a shame because I think I could learn a lot from some of you.

"It is a point that if we could get the male half of the population to empathise with, would bring about the end of prostitution."

If only. Thats the world I want my little girl to grow up in, not the current one where prostitution and strip clubs etc are seen as perfectly normal and above board because the women are perfectly willing

(I know the issue here is not strip clubs but they're a personal hatred of mine so I added it in)

thank you for starting the original thread Molly.

we do pick apart each other's posts in this topic (some posters in particular) and it is a very worthwhile thing to do, because feminism is partly about teasing out and looking at the long-held assumptions we've all got and myths we unthinkingly buy into as a result of living in a male-dominated world. I think many of us would say we've learnt a lot from having this done to our posts at some point or seeing it done. It absolutely isn't personal and isn't done to make people feel bad or tell them their feminism isn't as good as anyone else's, it is purely about learning and analysing.

I think Molly's point was that even if the women had an appearance of not being threatened or coerced (although of course money exchanging hands is coercion), that the consequences on a person's psyche of being prostituted must be bad therefore any façade of lack of coercion is moot.

It is a point that if we could get the male half of the population to empathise with, would bring about the end of prostitution.

This sordid episode appears to conflict with Munich Re's self-declared stance on Corporate Responsibility to set high ethical standards.

Their policy statement speaks of "ethically and legally impeccable conduct".

It is for Munich Re to account for the discrepancy between their words and their actions.

Imagine being a top female employee - you think you are finally doing OK in the company, that your efforts are going to be rewarded. So you go along to the reward event only to be told that you have to wear a white wristband to distinguish you from the prostitutes at the event. How demeaning to walk into an event with your male colleagues only to find that they have to tag you (and only you) on entry.