Has anybody seen this about the salesmen's orgy?

Wow sakura, you've just blown my mind.

Well, actually you've put into words what I've been feeling for quite some time. Both in terms of the right-wing women's assessment of the world and in terms of the misogyny of the left.

(Actually the compartmentalisation helps to psychologically remove ourselves from 'the other' and we all do it to a certain extent and in different spheres of our lives.)

As a lefty myself, I do find it very difficult to reconcile my feminism (which I couldn't say has yet become my over-riding political ideology - although it probably should) with some of the liberal ideologies. Hmmm....

(I've just read this linked to on twitter. And has made me feel sick. Again. The comodification, the dehumanisation, the hatred of all women...

Sigh

yes.. that's the catch..
they'Re willing to throw a few women to the dogs for the "greater good" the majority of women. THe problem is, it was only pure chance an luck that stopped them from being the ones thrown to the dogs...
ANd they know this ...
they know the only thing that prevented them from being the ones stuck shivering on a street corner was luck...
but the way they see it the male system is just too powerful.. the only people fighting the root cause is other women, who are themselves powerless..

I hope they're wrong on that count.

They're not wrong about the misogyny of the left and the liberals though, and we have seen this in Nick Clegg.. and the rise of porn culture through leftist ideologies.
The other thing is that Conservatives oppose porn and places like Hooters... that's not a small thing for women
And the final reason (and this one is close to my heart) the conservatives are the only group which fight the male medical fraternaty's callous use of women's bodies in the form of surrogacy and egg harvesting... they are the only group which acknowledge women's role... it is extremely conservative... but the alternative is seeing women's life-creating power being brought down to the basest level wombs sold as commodities women harvested for their eggs and farmed for their life-giving potential in return for a few bucks... a few quid more than they're able to get than in the job market where their labour is exploited by the system

having said that they are going about it all the wrong way... the only way to change anything is through laws and social policies made by and in favour or women...

But as a lefty myself, it was really interesting to see thing from the other side of the fence IYSWIM

oh yes, see your point now..Speaking of which, I have just read RIght Wing WOmen by Andrea Dworkin and it has literally blown my mind..

it's all about why right wing women hold the beliefs, and behave the way they do, (perhaps turning a blind eye to a husband's "discrepancies") and it's NOT because they're stupid as most people believe. Women aren't stupid contrary to how the media portrays them (Sarah palin is a good example)... She argues that right wing women have simply accurately asessed the way of the world, and their politics is based on this accurate analysis. THe left and the liberals are just as misogynistic as the right, but the Right offers a slightly better deal to women in their opinion.
I can't stress how fabulously mind-blowing this book was!

I say "often their mothers" because society gives women the role of grooming their daughters for men.
Kate Middleton, perfect example. Do you think her mother sat her down and said, "If you marry William I will fear for your sanity, please don't do it" > I reckon her mother helped her snare him.
And this is not a slur on her mother either... all these women are acting withing the constraints of patriarchy and are doing the best they can...
That's why we need to get rid of patriarchy

but they will have been groomed SaF. All children are born with free will and agency. Females get their desire for freedom drummed (or beaten) out of them by their culture, parents (often their mothers) and religions until slavery seems like the only reasonable option. MAny women believe that all they can do in life is fold laundry and have children; their self-esteem is that low..

Women are told from birth they'Re nothign if they don'T have a man and that all their energies should be devoted to getting one..
we can hardly blame the women for being brainwashed

It's a fucking horrible situation: for the wives and the whores..
I hate patriarchy.

[And to the lurkers: it's not me that thinks prostitutes are whores, it's a comment on how men see women, it's called compartmentalizing, the madonna/whore complex]

yes, that too SaF

That is presumably what my BIL is being asked about by every single customer this week. Ha ha.

If I had a policy with them, I would be cancelling it.

The event cost about three hundred thousand euros.

No wonder insurance premiums are high.

One thing I noticed was that there were women in the group pics - did the men all go away alone? Surely the women would not have wanted to go with them?

Bild Zeitung likes to draw out their revelations over several days or weeks. Until they find a different scandal. Today, it was that the "Top 5" salesmen went on several holidays a year, paid by the company, including drug taking.

Prostitution is completely legal in Germany isn't it? This is the reason I think legalising prostitution is totally not the way to go. It's just the next step up from having work dos in strip clubs (which is also discriminatory, seedy and revolting IMO). Degrading for everyone who works in the company, the women involved and society as a whole.

I read this in the paper on Sunday and tried to block it out of my mind. It's so horrific that I can't quite take it in

yes media men like to get other men in trouble with their wives, and they are obviously jealous too that they didn't have the opportunity to be there.. so the press will chase these things up...for their own reasons, not because it's actually despicably wrong or anything like that.

Thanks for letting us know about the wives MmeLind Let's hope they're not too downtrodden and are hopefully making plans to leave

Didn't have time today, but will check up tomorrow.

DH did mention that the Bild zeitung are reporting it - the German tabloid loves to get their teeth into a story like this, particularly when they can print pics of scantily clad women. They have a pic of the salesmen who were on the trip so their wives will certainly know by now. And are reporting that another company offered similar "incentive" trips. Nice.

I did notice that there were women on the pic here www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft/hamburg-mannheimer-international-versicherung/zweite-versicherung-betroffen-concordia-sex-reise-fuer-mitarbeiter-18029930.bild.html

The football club Borussia Dortmund has cancelled sponsoring contracts with Ergo because of this.

Seems there were ex-employees who went to the press with the story. They had a grudge against the company as they were owed money apparently.