Jazz Musicians - why are they all men?

Yes you are right; Winifred was a blues style artist, but she was also capable of other styles. Memphis Minnie is great, as is the legendary Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

We have long been told by liars and progressives that the Devil has all the best tunes, but Sister Rosetta disproved that. When she played guitar, she sent the Devil packing, carrying a copy of the Guardian, right back to where he belongs. He subsequently invented Satanic Rock and Death Metal in an attempt to combat Sister Rosetta's message, but not one of his evil minions can play guitar like Sister Rosetta. Praise Be!

Winnifred Attwell was wonderful but I wouldn't really categorise her as Jazz as such. I still have old vinyl ep's of her that belonged to my mother who was a fan.
It's blues more than jazz but has anyone listened to Memphis Minnie? She wrote "When the levee breaks" and the original recording from the 20's is spine tingling. Great guitar player too.
Curiously, country music which is pretty old fashioned has always enjoyed a proliferation of really good female artists.

[whispers] Because Jazz is rubbish and most women have more taste? mmmmmm niiice.

isn't she fantastic!!!

claig: Just been watching Winifred Attwell!!

Jules Holland is a child in comparison

Good thread. I'm a fan of Winifred Atwell. She was a genius and the highest paid piano star of her time. Amy Winehouse doesn't come near - she is a singer and not a virtuouso instrumentalist like Winifred.

I don't think it is to do with sexism. There are less stellar musical geniuses among women. I'm not sure why that is. Promoters would promote them even more, because they are rarer.

amy winehouse, would you consider her? 5 grammys, a voice to die for and surely a modern legend.

billy tipton was a jazz musician and band leader[american-30s/40s i think]
when billy died it come to light that he was actually she.
some say that she was "trans"but others say that this was the only way that she could get ahead in her field at the time.
i believe she died because she was unable to get help for a illness as she was frightened of being"found out"-sad!

This is very slightly off topic, but there's a new archive of women's liberation music - bands, musicians, songwriters etc who were part of the "second wave" of feminism from the 60s on. Lots of jazz musicians there!

Sorry, hit submit too soon.

...quite simply a life 'on-the-road' for female jazz musicians (or even a lone folkies for that matter) probably isn't a safe prospect. And jazz musicians by definition are solitary creatures. As well as the potential for rape and assault, the environment and tradition for jazz musicians is to consume vast quantities of alcohol and (up until only recently) breathe-in vast quantities of cigarette smoke. All of this make for a less-than-enticing career option for women.

Eh?

The greatest saxophone player this country has produced in recent decades is Barbara Thompson MBE, and she's a jazz musician. I can't therefore agree with the generalisation 'all men'.

I would certainly suggest that 'most' jazz musicians are men; and the reason is simply - if you are obsessed with playing, then that means playing anywhere, at the drop of a hat, for little money. And that means you will have to put up with a dingy guesthouse or hotel and endless hours on a coach or train (jazz musicians don't run cars). The drummer Bill Bruford provides an insight into the nature of jazz musicians in his autobiography, written just before he retired.

...apart from those who started young and were dedicated/encouraged enough to reach a very high standard before leaving the parental sphere...

quiddity you're quite right about the profusion of female singers in the Jazz/RnB field, but the OP was specifically interested in examples of instrumentalists.

Good point, Nac about the practice time and the undivided commitment necessary to reach the level of excellence required in jazz/classical fields. The best female musicians I know are single and child-free.

I play a lot of music, not jazz though ( ) - at the sessions I go to, I am usually outnumbered about 5-1, and am regularly the only woman.

You have to work twice as hard to get half the respect, IME. There is always an expression of surprise from new men in the group - they start off patronising, then there is grudging support, and eventually we get on an equal footing.

There is a lot of banter, and I don't challenge everything (due to not having the time!) But the music is the important thing, and people (male or female) who don't get that don't last long in the group.

One thing I do think - I am an OK pianist, to be an excellent pianist you need hours upon hours to practice. Most women I know don't have the time. I struggle to get a couple of hours a day (single mum, 3 kids) and have to sacrifice other stuff (TV, sleep etc) in order to get it done. The men - even those with kids - don't seem to struggle in this way, they generally have a willing woman in the background who picks up the slack.

Yes, it's true that there are very few women conductors. The number of composers is improving gradually though, although still a long way from 50:50.

There have been lots of great women jazz/R&B singers. They all came through the church, which was at one time the only place that women could learn/perform.

I agree HandDivedScallops. For some reason I was only thinking of instrumentalists, and while it's far from 50:50, women are not the hens' teeth they seem to be in other genres.

Butterbur - I would also say that the classical music sphere is also hugely male-dominated if you look at composer, conductors and orchestra ratios (especially the first two).

More than in the jazz field thought, I suspect Butterbur

Clare Teal is ace, but isn't she a singer, Bumper? (I could be wrong - she may be an instrumentalist too...)

It isn't just jazz thought, is it? The whole musical sphere outside the realms of classical seems to be male dominated. There are few female rock musicians, and few women in popular music, apart from singers.