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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ok then - what's the absolute best way to respond to physical/verbal sexual harrassment?

33 replies

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 10/05/2011 17:29

...Apart from with the Feminist Cavalry obviously.

Last week I had one man feel me up at a work event, and another make very loud comments to me about my breasts in the pub. I had never met either of these men before, but they were surrounded by their/our friends and presumably felt sure that no serious consequences would result of their behaviour to me (like, say, friends dumping them).

BOTH times I was told afterwards by other women who'd been there that the men had done the same or worse to them in the past.

So what I want to know is, what should we do, when faced with this twattish behaviour? I want something that will show the perpetrator that it's not ok, and discourage them from trying it on me or anyone else again.

Thoughts/ideas?

Because shutting up and being polite about it isn't working for me any more.

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aliceliddell · 13/05/2011 21:10

Anyfucker - good point, the main aim is stay safe, not get into a macho fight for victory. We were told to avoid using weapons, esp door keys as they can be taken and used against you, then you can't get into your house.

AnyFucker · 13/05/2011 16:19

I did self defence classes wih my sis

It was a great laugh, but the instructor was very clear that after having done them you should not really feel safer and make the mistake of thinking you would be able to actually fight your attacker off in the heat of the moment

His best advice was to shout very loudly, get away by any means possible and then stay away until you find assistance. I wouldn't try to use it unless I felt my safety was very, very compromised because of the risk of escalating violence. Physically hurting someone, when it doesn't come naturally is very difficult to do.

The notebook thing is brilliant. Say you are making notes for a harassment case very loudly and watch him squirm.

I also have used the "why" approach. "Why are you touching me?" is easy to remember and won't get you tangled up with your words. Or "why would you say that ?" with a puzzled expression is very, very effective.

BelleDameSansMerci · 13/05/2011 15:58

My mental response to this was "punch him in the face" but, actually, when it has happened to me (many, many years ago) I actually did nothing except freeze.

I like the idea of the notebook very much.

SuchProspects · 13/05/2011 15:50

I did quite a lot of self-defence at school and later as a police officer (no specific martial arts though). While I think it is a really great idea for almost every woman, I also think that the best thing you can work on yourself (i.e. other than ending the appalling acceptance of male violence) to keep yourself safe on the streets is running. Putting someone down is good, if they then give up that's excellent. But putting someone out, especially someone bigger than you, is hard. So once they're down (or you get some other escape route) you need to be able to get away. Go running. It's good for you too.

Still, I don't think it's a great answer to the OP. Feeling physically less vulnerable can make you feel better able to handle situations, or at least deal with some of the risks. But I don't think it stops attacks. And sadly in the sorts of situations Elephants experienced, a violent response (or running away) are probably going to have significant negative consequences for the woman. I do think being verbal about it, naming it as sexual assault, reporting it and telling people it has happened are good ways to deal with it. In a professional setting I think the reporting thing is important if you can do so without significant repercussions, even if you don't think their boss will take it seriously. Because the next time it might be worse or there might be a woman who will sue and your report could be evidence that will help make justice at least a little bit more likely.

I like the idea of a feminist cavalry, might need some serious stable space on that commune. Grin

Prolesworth · 13/05/2011 15:17

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Prolesworth · 13/05/2011 15:10

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Thomas1969 · 13/05/2011 14:19

I suggest, the next time it happens, you grab the offender by the crotch, drag him outside and explain the legal concept of assault to him with the to of your shoe. You need not put up with what is, at heart, psychotic molestation.

aliceliddell · 11/05/2011 18:51

I'd recommend all-women self defence classes. never thought it would 'work' until i tried it. He ran away. The effective thing is role play and repetition until your response becomes automatic. Your body remembers what to do/say/shout even if you're scared or embarrassed. Be prepared to feel like a pillock, it will wear off with practice, then you don't have to get through those feelings at the time.

cloudyweather · 11/05/2011 18:43

a few years ago i moved into a block of flats with a security guard in them
this bastard just wouldnt leave me aloneand it got to the point where i was scared to go home at night-i rushed in before he started work.
telling him to fuck off didnt work-
i did think of reporting him but i thought it would be my word against his!
in the end i cheerfully walked through the door one day and when he asked me why was i so happy i replied"my husband is about to get out of prison-hes done 6 years for gbh"
his face dropped and he never bothered me again!
i felt pissed off about resorting to a fictacious man to save me but i believe it did save me.
its suprising the amount of men that scarper when they think theres a [male]nutter round the corner.!!

steamedtreaclesponge · 11/05/2011 17:26

I love the notebook idea, will have to remember that. Last time this happened to me, I just said very loudly "Please take your hand off my arse, it's not public property." My normal standby is "What the fuck are you doing?"

Oddly (or perhaps not oddly) I do find it much easier to say something if I've drunk a bit - brings out my natural stridency!

I like the idea of knowing more self-defence moves, too. I do remember doing self-defence at school but I don't remember many of the moves now.

RubberDuck · 11/05/2011 12:13

"I know physical violence is not great, but if a man acts like an animal smash him in the face" - I would add caution that would probably get you in legal hotwater. Reasonable force is just enough to get you out of the bad situation. If he showed other threatening signs and you were on your own with him rather than in a big group of people then you would be more justified to take more strident action.

I can also recommend Krav Maga if you're looking for something very practical that can be learned quickly - it was developed to get soldier recruits up to speed with techniques in the shortest space of time possible. It's totally geared around realistic scenarios and getting the right mental framework and making the most of your natural reflexes. I've also learned a lot about situational awareness, legal aspects and non-violent ways of disarming a confrontation - it's not all fight all of the time.

blackcurrants · 11/05/2011 11:50

Ahh, is something everyone should know. The way the Uke (practice partner) is falling to the ground is NOT fake, if you don't flop down you'll break your arm. It's a great move.
Sorry for that minor hijack, there.

blackcurrants · 11/05/2011 11:44

Elephants: it's not bar-fighting, but Aikido is the "defensive'' and ''throwing'' martial art, which is all about escaping holds and grips, and blocking punches and kicks. I can have a man (or anyone, of any size) who tries to grab my arm, collar, or shoulder, on the floor in about five seconds. It's not about muscle, it's about balance

I'm a beginner, and haven't been for a bout a year (baby) but it's ACE. Can you tell I'm excited to go back? :)

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/05/2011 11:01

Ahaha brilliant idea SDTG!! I will definitely do that. I am actually going to buy a notebook now.

I wanted to start this thread not just for myself but to amass ideas for other people who are fed up with this. These men just can't be allowed to carry on unchallenged. Angry

QP - I just don't think I've got the stomach to contemplate the idea of their dicks! Plus they might like it...

I would love to learn how to fight. Where can I go to do that?

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StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 11/05/2011 10:46

What if you kept a notebook in your bag, and made a big point of noting down every incident when it happened - either as well as, or instead of channelling the Death voice and challenging the perpetrator. If asked what you are doing, you could calmly say 'Amassing evidence for a sexual harassment case against you.'

I hope that you can get this sorted out - such behaviour is abhorrent.

CFAW · 11/05/2011 10:44

Learn how to fight, i would have punched the guy if he felt me up!

I know physical violence is not great, but if a man acts like an animal smash him in the face.

But make sure you know how to do it.

Kittytickle · 11/05/2011 10:40

OP, that is awful. What a cowardly little person, who could physically do that and then look embarrassed one on one. The mind boggles.

QuintessentialPains, I love your post, that is brilliant and I for one certainly have the mouth on me to try that.

I the past I have tipped a pint over someone who was told not to touch my arse. I have also threatened to break someone's fingers (hand hovvering whilst they talked to me).

The "Why?" thing is good too as Dittany says. Works in lots of situations and allows the perpetrator to embarrass themselves further.

Before my breast reduction, I would catch anyones eye who was staring at my chest and give them a hard stare if I was in the mood for it. They could never hold my gaze.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/05/2011 10:31

I think next time I see him I am going to tell him that if he ever does that to me again, or I hear of him doing it to another woman, I am going to email his boss.

It's sad that I heartily doubt that his boss would do anything about it.

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TheVisitor · 11/05/2011 10:11

You complain to his boss.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/05/2011 09:42

That's really good that your workplace changed, bedlam, gives us all hope.

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/05/2011 09:41

I honestly wouldn't know who to complain to, there's no HR department that I know of.

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 11/05/2011 09:41

I'm meeting my friend later, who's had trouble from the same man at work, and will have a chat with her about what to do now. Was INFURIATED with myself yesterday because I bumped into him and was really polite. He looked embarrassed so clearly knows what he did.

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bedlambeast · 11/05/2011 09:08

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QuintessentialPains · 11/05/2011 08:31

Start a serious discussion about their dicks. Ask them if they shave their pubic hair, have they ever considered circumcision, and what size condom do they use. How their trousers are not so flattering to their manhood, as it looks really like there is very little there, and have they considered penile enlargements?

LlydogenFawr · 11/05/2011 08:27

Ask a question loudly but calmly, "why do you think it is ok to grope me? Do you understand that it is sexual assult?" "why do you think it is ok to talk about my breasts that way? Do you just see women as objects" puts the onus on them to explain their behaviour and is embarrassing for them. I have used this strategy to good effect in the past but as Dittany says, only when it's safe. I would definitely report the arsehole too.